X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.8) with ESMTP id 3152401 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:56:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20080918125543.INWT25689.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@computername> for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:55:43 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] first start Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:55:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C9196C.5B345B10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AckZLB874F2bz2U8Tq+7YKtPuRfOFgAXAXpw In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20080918125543.INWT25689.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@computername> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C9196C.5B345B10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, Once the engine starts running in 50F temperatures, you should not need the cold start on. At that temp my engine would flood badly if I left the cold start on for more than a second or so. I presume that the 3.9 psi fuel pressure for the Webber carb is not what you have feeding the injectors? How much is your fuel pressure to your injectors? The fact that you need to keep the cold start on to keep the engine running indicates to me a problem with the injectors delivering sufficient fuel. This could be because some are not firing properly, fuel pressure too low, restricted fuel flow or (this happens fairly frequently) the wiring of the two injector disable switches and their incorporation of the cold start function may be incorrect. Normally, when you turn off one pair (primary or secondary) injectors using the injector disable switches - it automatically grounds the cold start switch (which turns it on) doubling the pulse duration to the remaining pair of injectors to double their fuel flow and meet the engine needs. Also since these switches provide power to the injectors(say if there was a wiring fault) perhaps only one pair of the injectors are firing which would mean your engine would be starved for fuel and would need the cold start on to run. If this cold start switch function was not being automatically grounded when you turn off an injector pair using the disable switch, then the engine would not be receiving sufficient fuel and you would probably have to use the cold-start switch on the EC2 control panel to keep the engine running. So to summarize: 1. Both injector pairs may not be getting a. Power (+12VDC) b. Sufficient Fuel (Too Little Pressure or Flow) c. Grounding signal from EC2 2. IF all four injectors are clicking when you use the EC2 injector simulation mode then we can assume they have both power and are being grounded properly by the EC2. In which case that possibly leaves, 1. Fault in the wiring for the disable switches 2. Fuel feed problems Good luck, this type of thing can have you tearing your hair out. Ed Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John Downing Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] first start Yesterday and today I had time to check out the regulators and the injectors, all are working, had to put a four foot extension on the stethoscope to do this alone. When I was installing the fuel bypass tubing there was much discussion, here, on the size of tubing to use, the directions with the Mallory regulator states to back out the adjusting screw and run the pumps to see if there is restriction and with the 5/16" tubing the pressure came to 3.9 #'s, a little more than Lynn stated that the Weber can take. It would take a month of Sunday's to change the by-pass hose and fittings to -6 size, so I guess I'll install the after market needle valve. The project started out with the 48 Weber and Tracy's electronic ignition system to fly 4 years ago and eventually install the fuel injection as a winter project at a later date. Life gets in the way of living and plans change, so l have both carb and fuel injection, using the Weber as a throttle body, or carb, if the injection system fails. Enclosed are two photo's of the carb, over the top manifold, with the fuel injection hidden beneath the intake manifold. My machinist buddy made two plates of aluminum to level the carb on the intake manifold. How long on the average do you need to run the engine in 50 degree weather before it will stay running with the cold start switch off? (fuel injection) I will need to add several items on the after start check list, as in all the excitement many things were overlooked and in all this checking, you notice things that didn't quite get finished as distractions arose, there is a positive note in every thing. That gasohol is some nasty stuff, it looks like a cloud floating around in it and I got some on the pressure gauge face and it turned it to slime and when it drips, it looks like olive oil and the odor is terrible. JohnD __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C9196C.5B345B10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = John,

 

Once the engine starts running in = 50F temperatures, you should not need the cold start on.  At that temp = my engine would flood badly if I left the cold start on for more than a = second or so. 

 

I presume that the 3.9 psi fuel = pressure for the Webber carb is not what you have feeding the injectors?  = How much is your fuel pressure to your injectors?

 

 

The fact that you need to keep the = cold start on to keep the engine running indicates to me a problem with the = injectors delivering sufficient fuel.  This could be because some are not firing = properly, fuel pressure too low, restricted fuel flow or (this happens fairly = frequently) the wiring of the two injector disable switches and their incorporation of = the cold start function may be incorrect.

 

 

Normally, when you turn off one = pair (primary or secondary) injectors using the injector disable switches = – it automatically grounds the cold start switch (which turns it on) doubling = the pulse duration to the remaining pair of injectors to double their fuel = flow and meet the engine needs.  Also since these switches provide power to = the injectors(say  if there was a wiring fault)  perhaps only one = pair of the injectors are firing which would mean your engine would be starved = for fuel and would need the cold start on to run.

 

If this cold start switch function = was not being automatically grounded when you turn off an injector pair using = the disable switch, then the engine would not be receiving sufficient fuel = and you would probably have to use the cold-start switch on the EC2 control = panel to keep the engine running.

 

 

So to = summarize:

 

  1. Both injector pairs may not be getting

     a. Power (+12VDC)

     b. Sufficient Fuel (Too Little Pressure or = Flow)

     c. Grounding signal from EC2

   = ; 

  1. IF all four injectors are clicking when you use the EC2 injector = simulation mode then we can assume they have both power and are being grounded properly by the EC2.  In which case that possibly = leaves,
    1. Fault in the wiring for the disable switches =
    2. Fuel feed problems

 

Good luck, this type of thing can = have you tearing your hair out.

 

Ed

 =

 

 

Ed

 

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= font size=3D2 face=3DArial>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John Downing
Sent: Wednesday, = September 17, 2008 9:25 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = first start

 

Yesterday and today I had time to check out the = regulators and the injectors, all are working, had to put a four foot extension on = the stethoscope to do this alone.  When I was installing the fuel = bypass tubing there was much discussion, here, on the size of tubing = to use, the directions with the Mallory regulator states to back out the = adjusting screw and run the pumps to see if there is restriction and with the = 5/16" tubing the pressure came to 3.9 #'s, a little more than Lynn stated that = the Weber can take.  It would take a month of Sunday's to change the by-pass = hose and fittings to -6 size, so I guess I'll install the after market needle valve.  The project started out with the 48 Weber and Tracy's = electronic ignition system to fly 4 years ago and eventually install the fuel = injection as a winter project at a later date.  Life gets in the way of living = and plans change, so l have both carb and fuel injection, using the Weber as = a throttle body, or carb, if the injection system fails.  Enclosed = are two photo's of the carb, over the top manifold, with the fuel injection = hidden beneath the intake manifold.  My machinist buddy made two plates of aluminum to level the carb on the intake manifold.  =

 

How long on the average do you need to run the engine = in 50 degree weather before it will stay running with the cold start switch off? (fuel injection) I will need to add several items on the after = start check list, as in all the excitement many things were overlooked and in = all this checking, you notice things that didn't quite get finished as = distractions arose, there is a positive note in every = thing. 

 

That gasohol is some nasty stuff, it looks like a = cloud floating around in it and I got some on the pressure gauge face and it = turned it to slime and when it drips, it looks like olive oil and the odor is terrible.   JohnD



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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