X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao102.cox.net ([68.230.241.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3070283 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:56:03 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.44; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20080810235525.RISA6684.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:55:25 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.137.74]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id 0nvR1a00D1cVYgg03nvRPF; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:55:25 -0400 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: Thermostat vs no thermostat Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:56:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c8fb4d$1a515310$6401a8c0@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C8FB0A.0C2E1310" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C8FB0A.0C2E1310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even though my engine now runs cooler than I'd like at cruise and = descent; I'm hesitant to put a thermostat in the engine. Measurements I made on = the dyno showed that installing the thermostat reduced the coolant flow rate = by nearly 1/3 (31%) at operating conditions typical of climb. That would = also reduce the cooling capacity some, resulting in higher temps. I like = that my coolant stays below about 200 - 205 on climbout on a 90F day, so I don't want to change that. =20 The other factor of course is that the engine would get up to 180F much quicker. As it is, I can start up, listen to ATIS, take my time taxing between hangars, down to the runup area, do the runup tests - and only = then have the temp up to about 180. It may get up to 190 by wheels up, but = then it stabilizes during climb, and will begin to drop as I reduce power. =20 The best way to increase cruise temps is to reduce air flow. =20 =20 I do have an in-line thermostat in the line to my second radiator, but I = had drilled a couple small holes to insure some flow. I'm going to replace = that with one with only the air bleed hole, and see if the coolant temp stays at/above the 170 thermostat temp. =20 Al G =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Brooks Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:46 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2nd flight on the new cooling system =20 Paul, That is a good point, and something that I had not considered before. Putting the thermostat back in, wouldn't be an easy task. I removed the plastic / fiber, whatever it is made of portion where the thermostat resided, and used a 1/4" aluminum plate in it's place. That plate has = an AN16 fitting welded to it, and also has two 1/4 NPT holes in it to = hold sensors. =20 They probably make an in-line thermostat I assume, so that would = probably be an option. =20 Steve Brooks =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of fpbjr2001@yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:40 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2nd flight on the new cooling system =20 steve sounds great. something to think about. if get to a point where you = think you have enough cooling a 170-180 degree thermostat would be nice to stabilize the system. as you know i have run a thermostat since day one. paul brannon =20 =20 --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Steve Brooks wrote: =20 > From: Steve Brooks > Subject: [FlyRotary] 2nd flight on the new cooling system > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 1:58 PM > I took the Cozy up this morning for the 2nd flight on the > new cooling > system. The OAT was 3 or 4 degrees warmer than the first > flight, as it was > 79 F when I took off. > This time, I turned the cooling fan on while I was taxiing > out to the > runway. After the taxi and pre-flight checks, the oil was > 135 F and the > coolant was still reading pretty low. Maybe 115 to 120 or > so. It is a > little hard to read the analog gauge down on the low end of > the scale. > > I took off and climbed up to about 1300 FT AGL, at which > time I pulled the > throttle back some and continued a cruise climb. The > coolant was showing > about 190F, and I didn't think to check the oil > temperature. Oil > temperature has not been my issue. It has always been the > coolant. The > coolant temperature did still increase a little, even at > the reduced power, > but just up to 200 F. I was close to a low cloud layer at > about 1800 AGL, > so I throttle back some more and dropped the nose to level > flight. I also > turned off the cooling fan to see what the temperature > would do on it's own. > The temperature steadily dropped to about 180 degrees > within just a few > minutes, and then stabilized there. > > I cruised around for a little while, flew over my house and > circled it once, > and then headed back to the airport. With the low cloud > layer that had > moved in, I really didn't know if it was going to clear > out or get thicker, > so I flew the 5 minutes back to the airport, and made a > normal landing. As > I was ready to throttle back to descend about 800 feet to > pattern altitude, > and quick check of the coolant temperature showed about 160 > degrees. Not > bad at all, although I was probably flying at about 60% > power. Still, it > would have not been nearly that low before the new cooling > system. > > Once I landed and was clearing the runway, I checked the > temperatures again, > and the coolant was less then 140 degrees after the glide > in to land. Since > I planned to wash the plane, and sometimes it starts hard > after getting heat > soaked sitting after a run, I turned on the cooling fan > while a taxied over > to the where the wash area is. After washing the plane, it > started up > pretty easily, so I guess that worked out also. > > So far so good. I like what I see so far on the radiator, > and the cooling > fan definitely gives me a lot more options. > > Steve Brooks > Cozy N75CZ > 13B turbo to read the an =20 =20 =20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C8FB0A.0C2E1310 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Even though my engine now runs cooler than = I’d like at cruise and descent; I’m hesitant to put a thermostat in the engine.  Measurements I made on the dyno showed that installing the = thermostat reduced the coolant flow rate by nearly 1/3 (31%) at operating = conditions typical of climb.  That would also reduce the cooling capacity = some, resulting in higher temps.  I like that my coolant stays below about 200 - = 205 on climbout on a 90F day, so I don’t want to change that.

 

The other factor of course is that the engine would = get up to 180F much quicker.  As it is, I can start up, listen to ATIS, = take my time taxing between hangars, down to the runup area, do the runup tests = – and only then have the temp up to about 180.  It may get up to 190 = by wheels up, but then it stabilizes during climb, and will begin to drop = as I reduce power.

 

The best way to increase cruise temps is to reduce = air flow. 

 

I do have an in-line thermostat in the line to my = second radiator, but I had drilled a couple small holes to insure some flow.  = I’m going to replace that with one with only the air bleed hole, and see if = the coolant temp stays at/above the 170 thermostat temp.

 

Al G

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Steve Brooks
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:46 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2nd flight on the new cooling system

 

Paul,

That is a good point, and something that I had not considered before.  = Putting the thermostat back in, wouldn't be an easy task.  I removed the = plastic / fiber, whatever it is made of portion where the thermostat resided, and = used a 1/4" aluminum plate in it's place.  That plate has an AN16 = fitting welded to it, and also has two  1/4 NPT  holes in it to hold = sensors.

 

They probably make an in-line thermostat I assume, so that would probably be = an option.

 

Steve Brooks

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf = Of fpbjr2001@yahoo.com

Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:40 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2nd flight on the new cooling system

 

steve

   sounds great. something to think about. if get to a point where you = think you have enough cooling a 170-180 degree thermostat would be nice to = stabilize the system. as you know i have run a thermostat since day = one.

       &nbs= p;            = ;   paul brannon

 

 

--- On Sat, 8/9/08, Steve Brooks <cozy4pilot@gmail.com> = wrote:

 

> From: Steve Brooks <cozy4pilot@gmail.com>

> Subject: [FlyRotary] 2nd flight on the new cooling = system

> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

> Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 1:58 PM

> I took the Cozy up this morning for the 2nd flight on = the

> new cooling

> system.  The OAT was 3 or 4 degrees warmer than the = first

> flight, as it was

> 79 F when I took off.

> This time, I turned the cooling fan on while I was = taxiing

> out to the

> runway.  After the  taxi and pre-flight checks, the oil = was

> 135 F and the

> coolant was still reading pretty low.  Maybe 115 to 120 = or

> so.  It is a

> little hard to read the analog gauge down on the low end = of

> the scale.

>

> I took off and climbed up to about 1300 FT AGL, at = which

> time I pulled the

> throttle back some and continued a cruise climb.  = The

> coolant was showing

> about 190F, and I didn't think to check the oil

> temperature.  Oil

> temperature has not been my issue.  It has always been = the

> coolant.  The

> coolant temperature did still increase a little, even = at

> the reduced power,

> but just up to 200 F.  I was close to a low cloud layer = at

> about 1800 AGL,

> so I throttle back some more and dropped the nose to = level

> flight.  I also

> turned off the cooling fan to see what the temperature

> would do on it's own.

> The temperature steadily dropped to about 180 degrees

> within just a few

> minutes, and then stabilized there.

>

> I cruised around for a little while, flew over my house = and

> circled it once,

> and then headed back to the airport.  With the low = cloud

> layer that had

> moved in, I really didn't know if it was going to = clear

> out or get thicker,

> so I flew the 5 minutes back to the airport, and made = a

> normal landing.  As

> I was ready to throttle back to descend about 800 feet = to

> pattern altitude,

> and quick check of the coolant temperature showed about = 160

> degrees.  Not

> bad at all, although I was probably flying at about = 60%

> power.  Still, it

> would have not been nearly that low before the new = cooling

> system.

>

> Once I landed and was clearing the runway, I checked = the

> temperatures again,

> and the coolant was less then 140 degrees after the = glide

> in to land.  Since

> I planned to wash the plane, and sometimes it starts = hard

> after getting heat

> soaked sitting after a run, I turned on the cooling = fan

> while a taxied over

> to the where the wash area is.  After washing the plane, = it

> started up

> pretty easily, so I guess that worked out also.

>

> So far so good.  I like what I see so far on the = radiator,

> and the cooling

> fan definitely gives me a lot more options.

>

> Steve Brooks

> Cozy N75CZ

> 13B turbo to read the an

 

 

    

 

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