X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail07.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.188] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTPS id 3061449 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:03:59 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.188; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d58-105-122-139.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [58.105.122.139]) by mail07.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id m74M35Kc008263 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:03:06 +1000 Message-ID: <006401c8f67d$e091de20$6400a8c0@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Back in the air Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:03:06 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01C8F6D1.B1545170" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080804-0, 04/08/2008), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C8F6D1.B1545170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, I thought that might be the case, but I wasn't sure. Does the fan free = spin when not engaged. Would that free spinning do the bearing in, in = short order, or does the air slow enough to limit overspinning.=20 Would free spinning blades actually help the flow - would static blades = restrict the flow. A lot of questions to answer there Steve- personally I would love to = know the answers. George (down under) George, Actually the fan is in between the air inlet, and the radiator, so it = is pushing air through the radiator. This is a pusher airplane, and the = inlet scoop is what they call a NACA scoop, but it also has an extended = lip, so not a true NACA. =20 =20 Steve=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On = Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:22 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back in the air =20 Steve, Thanks for the photo and reply, yep it's a large fan, that's for sure = - I assume it's sucking on the Rad.=20 =20 I was wondering if it wouldn't be better if a large fan was used and = it was blowing on the rad, and it was free wheeling when turned off - if = ( in that case) the restriction would be less. George ( down under) George, I had considered that. I would assume that there is definitely some = restriction caused by the fan, but I think that the benefits during = extended ground operation, and during climb, probably outweigh the = downside. But, you are right. The only way to see how much, is to = remove it, and try a takeoff and climb without the fan. It would = probably take about an hour to remove the fan and get the plenum and = cowlings reinstalled. =20 I will most likely do this, but I think that I will fly it some more = first, and get a good benchmark on the current set up. Plus after 3 =BD = months of down time, I just want to fly it some. =20 Regards, Steve =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On = Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:36 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back in the air =20 Steve, How large is the cooling fan, do you think it may be restrictive ( = restrict air flow) in the low speed climb. Another test would be to take out the fan and do another test and you = would have a better idea of what the advantages and disadvantages are. George (down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Brooks=20 =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:33 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Back in the air =20 I've had my plane torn apart for about 3 =BD months rebuilding the = cooling system, in between vacation, wife's projects, and problems = fitting in the radiator. I installed a custom made radiator, replacing = two evaporator cores that I was using. The evaporator cores provided = only marginal cooling for the turbo 13B, in a pusher aircraft =20 In order to install the new radiator, I also had to relocate almost = all of the fuel system components, and I replaced the aluminum lines = connecting the fuel pumps to filters to regulator with SS braided AN = hose/fittings. Due to the extensive changes, I had at least an hour, maybe hour and a = half of ground testing, including four high speed taxi's up to rotate = speed. =20 =20 The new cooling system also has a cooling fan which I was able to = integrate into the plenum holding the radiator. At 95 F degrees OAT, = and turning the fan on at about 190 F degrees coolant temperature, The = fan maintained 180 F for 20 minutes of ground operation, including some = high power testing. =20 This morning OAT was about 78 F, which is very good for North Carolina = in August, I wanted something less than 95 F for the first test of the = new cooling system. I did not use the cooling fan for taxi or takeoff, = as I wanted to see what the cooling was without the fan. I took of and = climbed up to about 1200' AGL. The coolant was up to about 205, and oil = at 185. I leveled off and reduced the throttle to normal cruise power. = I watched the coolant temperature for a little while (maybe 15-20 = seconds), and it seemed to stay at the 205 F reading. I wish now that = I'd been a little more patient, but I kicked on the cooling fan, and the = temperature came down pretty quickly to slightly above 180 F. I turned = the fan off again and the temperature stayed right there. I did power = up and climb another 300 feet or so, but really didn't push it too hard = on the first flight. The temperature didn't really move too much during = the brief climb. All other systems ran perfectly and it was a very nice = flight. I did stay within gliding distance of the runway the whole = flight, but based on zero squawks on this flight, the next one will be = longer. =20 While I would like to have seen a little better performance, I was = happy with the improved cooling over the old system. Climbing to = pattern altitude old the old system at today's temperature would have = been 215 - 220F. On the next flight, I'll take off using the cooling = fan, and see what kind of numbers I get with it. I hope to see = something more in the 185-190 range, but I'll have to see what the real = number are.=20 =20 =20 Steve Brooks Cozy MKIV N75CZ Turbo rotary ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C8F6D1.B1545170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,
I thought that might be the case, = but I wasn't=20 sure. Does the fan free spin when not engaged. Would that free spinning = do the=20 bearing in, in short order, or does the air slow enough to limit = overspinning.=20
Would free spinning blades actually = help the flow -=20 would static blades restrict the flow.
A lot of questions to answer there = Steve-=20 personally I would love to know the answers.
George (down under)

George,

Actually=20 the fan is in between the air inlet, and the radiator, so it is = pushing air=20 through the radiator.  = This is a=20 pusher airplane, and the inlet scoop is what they call a NACA scoop, = but it=20 also has an extended lip, so not a true NACA.  =

 

Steve=20

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of George = Lendich
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 = 8:22=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Back in the air

 

Steve,

Thanks=20 for the photo and reply, yep it's a large fan, that's for sure - I = assume it's=20 sucking on the Rad.

 

I was=20 wondering if it wouldn't be better if a large fan was used and it was = blowing=20 on the rad, and it was free wheeling when turned off - if ( in that = case) the=20 restriction would be less.

George=20 ( down under)

George,

I had=20 considered that.  I = would assume=20 that there is definitely some restriction caused by the fan, but I = think that=20 the benefits during extended ground operation, and during climb, = probably=20 outweigh the downside.  = But, you=20 are right.  The only way = to see=20 how much, is to remove it, and try a takeoff and climb without the = fan.  It would probably take about = an hour=20 to remove the fan and get the plenum and cowlings=20 reinstalled.

 

I will=20 most likely do this, but I think that I will fly it some more first, = and get a=20 good benchmark on the current set up. =20 Plus after 3 =BD months of down time, I just want to fly it=20 some.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of George = Lendich
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 = 5:36=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Back in the air

 

Steve,

How large = is the=20 cooling fan, do you think it may be restrictive ( restrict air flow) = in the=20 low speed climb.

Another = test would=20 be to take out the fan and do another test and you would have a better = idea of=20 what the advantages and disadvantages are.

George = (down=20 under)

----- = Original=20 Message -----

From: Steve Brooks=20

 

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent: Sunday, = August 03,=20 2008 11:33 PM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Back in=20 the air

 

I=92ve=20 had my plane torn apart for about 3 =BD months rebuilding the cooling = system, in=20 between vacation, wife=92s projects, and problems fitting in the = radiator.  I installed a custom made = radiator,=20 replacing two evaporator cores that I was using.  The evaporator cores = provided only=20 marginal cooling for the turbo 13B, in a pusher=20 aircraft

 

In=20 order to install the new radiator, I also had to relocate almost all = of the=20 fuel system components, and I replaced the aluminum lines connecting = the fuel=20 pumps to filters to regulator with SS braided AN=20 hose/fittings.

Due to=20 the extensive changes, I had at least an hour, maybe hour and a half = of ground=20 testing, including four high speed taxi=92s up to rotate speed.  =

 

The=20 new cooling system also has a cooling fan which I was able to = integrate into=20 the plenum holding the radiator. =20 At 95 F degrees OAT, and turning the fan on at about 190 F = degrees=20 coolant temperature, The fan maintained 180 F for 20 minutes of ground = operation, including some high power=20 testing.

 

This=20 morning OAT was about 78 F, which is very good for North Carolina in=20 August,  I wanted = something less=20 than 95 F for the first test of the new cooling system.  I did not use the cooling = fan for taxi=20 or takeoff, as I wanted to see what the cooling was without the = fan.  I took of and climbed up to = about=20 1200=92 AGL.  The = coolant was up to=20 about 205, and oil at 185.  = I=20 leveled off and reduced the throttle to normal cruise power.  I watched the coolant = temperature for=20 a little while (maybe 15-20 seconds), and it seemed to stay at the 205 = F=20 reading.  I wish now = that I=92d been=20 a little more patient, but I kicked on the cooling fan, and the = temperature=20 came down pretty quickly to slightly above 180 F.  I turned the fan off again = and the=20 temperature stayed right there.  I=20 did power up and climb another 300 feet or so, but really didn=92t = push it too=20 hard on the first flight.  = The=20 temperature didn=92t really move too much during the brief climb.  All other systems ran = perfectly and it=20 was a very nice flight.  = I did=20 stay within gliding distance of the runway the whole flight, but based = on zero=20 squawks on this flight, the next one will be=20 longer.

 

While=20 I would like to have seen a little better performance, I was happy = with the=20 improved cooling over the old system. =20 Climbing to pattern altitude old the old system at today=92s = temperature=20 would have been 215 =96 220F.  = On=20 the next flight, I=92ll take off using the cooling fan, and see what = kind of=20 numbers I get with it.  = I hope to=20 see something more in the 185-190 range, but I=92ll have to see what = the real=20 number are.

 

 

Steve=20 Brooks

Cozy=20 MKIV N75CZ

Turbo=20 = rotary

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