X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTP id 3014493 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 07 Jul 2008 07:30:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20080707112952.EYVE9879.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@computername> for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:29:52 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Saga info and questions Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 07:29:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C8E003.419E0D60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acjf4+kEY7bYF55uR9u6mdg+9ecq2gAP6ikA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 Message-Id: <20080707112952.EYVE9879.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@computername> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C8E003.419E0D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good to hear the progress after all your trials and tribulations, Chris. Yes, do not idle too low an rpm. The RWS PSRU has a torsion resonant frequency at lower rpm - also with light rotating mass from the prop (unlike a heavy flywheel), a higher idle reduces likely hood of engine unexpectedly dying and provides you up the power band if you need power in a hurry, Scotty. I would not idle lower than 1600 rpm and my engine normally idles between 1800 - 2000 rpm. My engine has a street port job and this is really not radical enough porting to materially affect idle. My engine rpm at idle gives a prop speed of 600 - 700 rpm (with my 2.85) and I really don't want it any slower. You get more prop rpm with a 2.17 of course. Glad to hear you have isolated the two coils. If you have not already, I would also do the same for the two fuel pumps. There is simply no safety benefit to having both sets of two critical components on the same wiring/circuit breaker lines. You'll be flying before long. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:45 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Saga info and questions I was out at the hangar again this afternoon. The engine is starting "all but" really easy. What I mean is it is starting within a couple of blades but I still have some issues. I think one (or perhaps both) of my batteries is not being charged by its respective alternator (Aeroelectric Z-14 drawing). I am getting the volt reading on the EM2 flashing most of the time. I do not yet know why it sometimes does and sometimes does not. One more thing to track down. I should be able to start the troubleshooting in the next couple of days. I gotta educate myself on proper diagnostic skills in this area. Again, until I actually come across the issue it is only philosophical and I have to get up to speed. I know I have some other electrical issues. The other day when I shut the primaries down at a higher RPM the engine stayed running on the secondary's (or so I suppose), However, when I did so today the engine started to die. I am also have my master and aux battery c/b still popping (but I have not had time to really look at this yet). The engine runs but I gotta find the reason. Based on Ed's comment the other day I went ahead and cut into my new coil harness and provided independent power for the leading coils and a separate line for the trailing coils. I had wanted to do this before, but had not done so until Ed's words screamed in my head. Now either set of coils keep the engine alive. I get a very slight rpm drop when on either set of coils and this is what I think should have been expected. Thanks Ed. I am getting some missing but I think this is getting better as I get the mixtures tuned more properly. I have been able to get idle as low as about 1200 rpm, even though it is pretty rough. This engine has a medium street port and it seems I remember reading that at this port level low end idle may suffer. Maybe it is only a more extreme port but at 1200 it is moderately rough. I have to be careful as to basing too much on engine sound since as I move around the plane the sound changes. I think part of this is a popping I get at certain angles due to exhaust against the prop. I think this because as I move my head from one position to another the tone changes. So, if I just hold my head (and tongue) just right, it sounds much better. I will need to learn to rely on the ME, I suppose The engine seems to like to idle better as I bring the rpm up to 1400, 1500, 1550 and 1600 rpm it. I read in the achieves in the last few days, IIRC, that Tracy and Ed Idle at 1600. At 1600 rpm the plane will stay put without braking or chocks. If I bring it up to 2000 rpm it really starts to move. Oh, did I mention I have taxied around a bit? . I do not seem to be getting Auto tune to function correctly. I enter the auto tune mode and I get a lot of tall bars jumping around, but I do not really notice any difference in the way the engine is running. I am guessin'/hopin' I need to do more manual tuning first. I am not confidant in my knowledge on how to read the tracking mode or auto tune mode yet. It does make better sense as I "play" with it more (with the manuals in one hand and knobs/throttle in the other ). I am not sure of how to actually tell it is in the actual auto tune mode as the graphs seem to change, but maybe they would have anyway. The difference between genius and ignorance?????? Genius has its limits . I am becoming more comfortable with the EM and ECU even though I wish Tracy would include the coolant and oil temperature in tracking/auto tune mode so I would know when I am hitting my limits. I had a brief issue when my temps shot up to about 240 for several seconds when I went WOT and then came out of auto tune mode. Finally for tonight anyway, when I did go to WOT, I got to about 5500 rpm and my RPM reading on the EM2 went blank. I throttled back a bit and the rpm readings went all over the place. I throttled back a bit more and the readings returned to normal. This happened with my old engine as well but the engine went belly up before I found the problem. I guess I will have to check wires again, but I have literally checked the wires (and replaced a few) at least 20 times. I cannot stay at these rpm's very long at all as it is very hot and humid in Houston in July. It is usually somewhere between 90 and 97 in the afternoon when I am out at the hangar. SO I AM ASSUMING THAT my temps are not all that bad considering the high heat on a stationary bird.......PLEASE correct me where I am wrong. What should I be seeing. I wish there was a truly one stop source for all this basic stuff, temp, expected rpm under certain conditions. I seem to have seen it all at one time, but still find myself hunting for it online and/or in Tracy's material. I still feel like progress is being made and most of this is pains of success. Yeah, that's it ;-) Thanks again. All the best, Chris __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3246 (20080707) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C8E003.419E0D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good to hear the progress after all = your trials and tribulations, Chris.

 

Yes, do not idle too low an = rpm.  The RWS PSRU has a torsion resonant frequency at lower rpm – also with = light rotating mass from the prop (unlike a heavy flywheel), a higher idle = reduces likely hood of engine unexpectedly dying and provides you up the power = band if you need power in a hurry, Scotty.

I would not idle lower than 1600 = rpm and my engine normally idles between 1800 – 2000 rpm. My engine has a = street port job and this is really not radical enough porting to materially = affect idle.  My engine rpm at idle gives a prop speed of 600 – 700 = rpm (with my 2.85) and I really don’t want it any slower.  You get more = prop rpm with a 2.17 of course.

 

Glad to hear you have isolated the = two coils.  If you have not already, I would also do the same for the = two fuel pumps.  There is simply no safety benefit to having both sets of = two critical components on the same wiring/circuit breaker lines.  =

 

You’ll be flying before = long.

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= font size=3D2 face=3DArial>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber
Sent: Sunday, July 06, = 2008 11:45 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Saga = info and questions

 

I was out at the hangar again this afternoon.  = The engine is starting "all but" really easy.  What I mean is = it is starting within a couple of blades but I still have some issues.  I = think one (or perhaps both) of my batteries is not being charged by its = respective alternator (Aeroelectric Z-14 drawing).  I am getting the volt = reading on the EM2 flashing most of the time.  I do not yet know why it = sometimes does and sometimes does not.  One more thing to track down.  I = should be able to start the troubleshooting in the next couple of days.  I = gotta educate myself on proper diagnostic skills in this area.  Again, until I actually come across the issue it is only philosophical and I have to get up to = speed.

 

I know I have some other electrical issues.  The = other day when I shut the primaries down at a higher RPM the engine stayed = running on the secondary's (or so I suppose), However, when I did so today the = engine started to die. I am also have my master and aux battery c/b still popping (but I have not had time to really look at this yet). The = engine runs but I gotta find the reason.

 

Based on Ed's comment the other day I went ahead and = cut into my new coil harness and provided independent power for the leading = coils and a separate line for the trailing coils.  I had wanted to do = this before, but had not done so until Ed's words screamed in my head.  = Now either set of coils keep the engine alive.  I get a very slight rpm = drop when on either set of coils and this is what I think should have been = expected.  Thanks Ed.

 

I am getting some missing but I think this is getting = better as I get the mixtures tuned more properly.  I have been able to get = idle as low as about 1200 rpm, even though it is pretty rough.  This = engine has a medium street port and it seems I remember reading that at this port = level low end idle may suffer.  Maybe it is only a more extreme port but = at 1200 it is moderately rough.  I have to be careful as to basing too much = on engine sound since as I move around the plane the sound changes.  I = think part of this is a popping I get at certain angles due to exhaust against = the prop.  I think this because as I move my head from one position to = another the tone changes.  So, if I just hold my head (and tongue) just = right, it sounds much better.  I will need to learn to rely on the ME, I = suppose

 

The engine seems to like to idle better as I bring = the rpm up to 1400, 1500, 1550 and 1600 rpm it. I read in the achieves in the = last few days, IIRC, that Tracy and Ed Idle at 1600.  At 1600 rpm the plane = will stay put without braking or chocks.  If I bring it up to 2000 rpm = it really starts to move.  Oh, did I mention I have taxied around a = bit? <yea>.

 

I do not seem to be getting Auto tune to function correctly.  I enter the auto tune mode and I get a lot of tall bars jumping around, but I do not really notice any difference in the way the = engine is running. I am guessin'/hopin' I need to do more manual tuning = first.  I am not confidant in my knowledge on how to read the tracking mode or = auto tune mode yet.  It does make better sense as I "play" with it = more (with the manuals in one hand and knobs/throttle in the other = <g>).  I am not sure of how to actually tell it is in the actual auto tune mode = as the graphs seem to change, but maybe they would have anyway.  The = difference between genius and ignorance?????? Genius has its limits = <g>.  I am becoming more comfortable with the EM and ECU even though I wish = Tracy would = include the coolant and oil temperature in tracking/auto tune mode so I would know = when I am hitting my limits.  I had a brief issue when my temps shot up to = about 240 for several seconds when I went WOT and then came out of auto tune = mode.

 

Finally for tonight anyway, when I did go to WOT, I = got to about 5500 rpm and my RPM reading on the EM2 went blank.  I = throttled back a bit and the rpm readings went all over the place.  I throttled = back a bit more and the readings returned to normal. This happened with my old = engine as well but the engine went belly up before I found the problem.  I = guess I will have to check wires again, but I have literally checked the wires = (and replaced a few) at least 20 times.  I cannot stay at these rpm's = very long at all as it is very hot and humid in Houston in July.  It is usually somewhere between 90 and 97 in the = afternoon when I am out at the hangar.  SO I AM ASSUMING THAT my temps are not all = that bad considering the high heat on a stationary bird.......PLEASE correct = me where I am wrong.  What should I be seeing.  I wish there was = a truly one stop source for all this basic stuff, temp, expected rpm under = certain conditions.  I seem to have seen it all at one time, but still find = myself hunting for it online and/or in Tracy's material.

 

I still feel like progress is being made and most of = this is pains of success. Yeah, that's it ;-)

 

Thanks again.

 

All the best,

 

Chris



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3246 (20080707) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C8E003.419E0D60--