X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.64] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2965468 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:46:34 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.64; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from OMTA03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.27]) by QMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id d7ra1Z01Z0bG4ec5704c00; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:45:55 +0000 Received: from ChristopherNB ([98.200.107.125]) by OMTA03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id d9lt1Z0082iMkLq3P9lvr3; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:45:55 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=GlMPMFWf2VkA:10 a=u0ETtD2aAutbJAQAupMA:9 a=RDkwFKC6rhguxjOkCioA:7 a=Gfy83f5M1nz_xN3aCylMvIJZL1IA:4 a=XCwpvLtFMdsA:10 a=5FtdkfQUxfIA:10 a=CdYxUPmLMScw4dZiR6cA:9 a=vF1lWbOh555XuikVsMIA:7 a=htcFRKT57V-MTqoHzCXyrbsvT08A:4 a=iVkDmfvjeKcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <69DAFF607ADF4DEB9A849ACE1CB3FB6F@ChristopherNB> From: "Christopher Barber" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First Start - AGAIN Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:45:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1775_01C8CCAB.C724A2C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1775_01C8CCAB.C724A2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, yeah, I did leave the monitor on overnight by mistake. Turning it = off and back on seemed to reset it fine...so far I did try both controllers and it acted....or actually did not act, the = same. As in turning the knob did not make a difference on A or B, thus = my conclusion that the knob is the culprit. I checked the wire between = 26 and 15 and it seemed fine and I did get an up and down variance when = I put a meter on the knob itself. I have been in Dallas the last two = days at a family funeral and just returned. I will check the D-subs as = Bob mentioned and try to determine the problem. Wish me luck/success. = Thanks. All the best, Chris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:29 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First Start - AGAIN Never seen an EM2 freeze up but then I've never left it running over = night (not that it should hurt anything). When you say that the mixture knob made no difference, did you mean = that the mixture monitor did not respond or that the engine did not = respond to a change in mixture (egt change, sound of engine, etc). = Assuming for the moment that the engine did not respond, the first thing = to try is the backup controller. Did you try it? Did it act the same? = If it did act the same, it is VERY unlikely that two controllers have = failed in the same way at the same moment in time. (have you ever heard = me say this before? :>) The obvious place to start is the wiring = between front panel and EC2. Specifically the wire from pin 26 on EC2 = to pin 15 on the front panel. (see instructions) Are they connected? = Are they shorted to ground?=20 Tracy (Colorado bound) On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Christopher Barber = wrote: Ahhh, the joys of engine development. After fiddling with getting = the timing set (thanks to y'all for this info) I was able to start my = new engine. I ran it for a few minutes while checking for leaks etc. I = was thrilled it started again.....however........ I found one leak coming from the top of the engine where I had a = heater hose inlet sealed off. It was tapped out earlier but only = clamped closed so I installed a bolt with some sealant on it and = recovered it with a end hose piece and clamped it shut. This proved a = better choice. The larger concerns are this. When the engine started the Engine = Monitor was on, and I kept a diligent eye on it. After a couple of = glances at it in the cabin while looking at the engine I realized that = the monitor was not "monitoring". I grabbed my handheld laser temp = monitor and pointed it at the engine and temp was still ok. At first I = just noticed the RPM was not regersting (my first thought was I was = gonna get the NOP signal), then that the temp was not moving. After = shut down, I turned the monitor off and back on and instantly the = monitor started working again. Hmmmmmm. The monitor was mistakenly = left on overnight and I am guessing it "froze up" during this time, but = I would have not thought leaving it on would have done this. It also = worked on my three subsequent short starts. Of course my hope is that = this was an anomaly, but will stay aware that it did happen.=20 However the biggest problems follows. When the engine started it was = running a little fast, but did not seem too bad and I throttled back and = it slowed a bit. When I noticed that the monitor was not processing data = I grabbed the mixture knob and turned it to slow the engine and to see = if it made any difference. Damn, the mixture knob was not doing = ANYTHING. NOTHING. Turning it from left to right made no difference. = Damnit. I cut the fuel at this point, too many issues. BTW, the prime = function, cold start switch and A/B inputs all seemed to work and would = make a difference when operated. But not the mixture knob. After letting the engine cool a while (the temps did rise pretty = fast per my hand held laser temp gage and I was pushing 220 after = several minutes on a hot/humid Houston summer day) I restarted to see if = the engine monitor was working. It was. However, the mixture know was = not. I re-checked the other inputs and they all worked. The engine was = running pretty rough......gee, the mixture actually makes a difference = . After shut down I disconnected the batteries (I have installed = master battery cut-offs) and then the control module and ECU and checked = the wires between the two. This was just a quick continuity check and = the wire was good. I then took a meter and in my non electrician mode = attempted to check the actual knob. I place leads on the two prongs = that seem to be soldered to the control board and turned the knob. The = numbers changed up and down as expected when I turned the know....so it = seems that the knob itself is not the culprit, and the wire seems ok. = What else should I check and/or try? I kinda need the mixture control = to work.=20 Is there a way to test to to test to determine if this knob is = actually doing anything when the engine is not running?????? Of course my timing sucks as Tracy is about to hit Colorado.. So = any solutions y'all may be able to provide should prove especially = useful. I anxiously await y'alls response. =20 Maybe I should just go ride my loud motorcycle to think thinks = through. Thanks again. All the best, Chris Barber Houston ------=_NextPart_000_1775_01C8CCAB.C724A2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, yeah, I did leave the monitor on = overnight by=20 mistake.  Turning it off and back on seemed to reset it fine...so = far=20 <g>
 
I did try both controllers and it = acted....or=20 actually did not act, the same.  As in turning the knob did not = make a=20 difference on A or B, thus my conclusion that the knob is the = culprit.  I=20 checked the wire between 26 and 15 and it seemed fine and I did get an = up and=20 down variance when I put a meter on the knob itself.  I have been = in Dallas=20 the last two days at a family funeral and just returned.  I will = check the=20 D-subs as Bob mentioned and try to determine the problem.  Wish me=20 luck/success.  Thanks.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy=20 Crook
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 = 8:29=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First = Start -=20 AGAIN

Never seen an EM2 freeze up but then I've never left it running = over=20 night (not that it should hurt anything).
 
When you say that the mixture knob made no difference, did you = mean that=20 the mixture monitor did not respond or that the engine did not respond = to a=20 change in mixture (egt change, sound of engine, etc).   = Assuming for=20 the moment that the engine did not respond, the first thing to try is = the=20 backup controller.  Did you try it?   Did it act the=20 same?  If it did act the same, it is VERY unlikely that two = controllers=20 have failed in the same way at the same moment in time.  (have = you ever=20 heard me say this before?  :>)  The obvious place to = start is the=20 wiring between front panel and EC2.  Specifically the wire from = pin 26 on=20 EC2 to pin 15 on the front panel.  (see instructions)   Are = they=20 connected?  Are they shorted to ground? 
 
Tracy  (Colorado bound)

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Christopher = Barber=20 <CBarber@texasattorney.net&g= t;=20 wrote:
Ahhh, the joys of engine = development. After=20 fiddling with getting the timing set (thanks to y'all for this = info) I=20 was able to start my new engine.  I ran it for a few minutes = while=20 checking for leaks etc.  I was thrilled it started=20 again.....however........
 
I found one leak coming from the = top of the=20 engine where I had a heater hose inlet sealed off.  It was = tapped out=20 earlier but only clamped closed so I installed a bolt with some = sealant on=20 it and recovered it with a end hose piece and clamped it shut.  = This=20 proved a better choice.
 
The larger concerns are this.  = When the=20 engine started the Engine Monitor was on, and I kept a diligent eye = on it.=20 After a couple of glances at it in the cabin while looking at the = engine I=20 realized that the monitor was not "monitoring".  I grabbed = my handheld laser temp monitor and pointed it at the = engine and=20 temp was still ok.  At first I just noticed the RPM was = not=20 regersting (my first thought was I was gonna get the NOP signal), = then that=20 the temp was not moving.  After shut down, I turned the = monitor=20 off and back on and instantly the monitor started working = again. =20 Hmmmmmm.  The monitor was mistakenly left on overnight and = I am=20 guessing it "froze up" during this time, but I would have not = thought=20 leaving it on would have done this.  It also worked on my three = subsequent short starts. Of course my hope is that this = was=20 an anomaly, but will stay aware that it did = happen. 
 
However the biggest problems = follows. When the=20 engine started it was running a little fast, but did not seem too = bad and I=20 throttled back and it slowed a bit. When I noticed that the = monitor was=20 not processing data I grabbed the mixture knob and turned it to = slow=20 the engine and to see if it made any difference.  Damn, the = mixture=20 knob was not doing ANYTHING.  NOTHING.  Turning it from = left to=20 right made no difference.   Damnit.  I cut = the fuel=20 at this point, too many issues.  BTW, the prime function, cold = start=20 switch and A/B inputs all seemed to work and would make a = difference=20 when operated.  But not the mixture knob.
 
After letting = the engine cool a while=20 (the temps did rise pretty fast per my hand held laser = temp gage=20 and I was pushing 220 after several minutes on a hot/humid Houston = summer=20 day) I restarted to see if the engine monitor was working.  It = was.=20 However, the mixture know was not.  I re-checked the = other=20 inputs and they all worked.  The engine was running=20 pretty rough......gee, the mixture actually makes a difference=20 <g>.
 
After shut down I disconnected = the=20 batteries (I have installed master battery cut-offs) and = then=20 the control module and ECU and checked the wires between the = two. =20 This was just a quick continuity check and the wire was good.  = I then=20 took a meter and in my non electrician mode attempted to check the=20 actual knob.  I place leads on the two prongs that = seem to be=20 soldered to the control board and turned the knob.  The numbers = changed=20 up and down as expected when I turned the know....so it seems that = the knob=20 itself is not the culprit, and the wire seems ok.  What else = should I=20 check and/or try?  I kinda need the mixture control = to work.=20
 
Is there a way to test to to test = to determine=20 if this knob is actually doing anything when the engine is not=20 running??????
 
Of course my timing sucks as Tracy = is about to=20 hit Colorado..  So any solutions y'all may be able to provide = should=20 prove especially useful.
 
I anxiously await y'alls = response. =20
 
Maybe I should just go ride my loud = motorcycle=20 to think thinks through. <g>
 
Thanks again.
 
All the best,
 
Chris Barber
Houston
 
 

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