X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2963006 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:30:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.132.243; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b38so620876ana.81 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:29:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=R2d6HYdw54gDgfVSlHC/WYH0QmiM5nx+rCvPSJEwi3Q=; b=sbce8fiCkc/rsAd8JWjID0PC4gEscWixKXnaEykK6wBpcXWTUPoXKa+farbe6B7uLK EsGfxWaTi/B4tccglOfLiTyccsmrmDFOSWWF21OHGBj8MsnJ4zacHGHJIPn5xHht3Ary WvjY7MXvxUQzjh0z3xNNn1bU22nbEJYPCbjec= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=RVfZ06jOB+tZh0hZYSd+w1s+A+UMKYDnNCSKRQ3uJ8kMrCWbQaZ3NMRBPk/fP3Rz7k de3hdDMaGTyebuctEllED/i40u3VDY/U20mxngDoRSqGTcn5i9G6DyASNNQ7UdInig2N 6owCU2dC2HivaktgzIw0f83hR8byRRPyERVd0= Received: by 10.100.46.10 with SMTP id t10mr7593150ant.22.1213190974038; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.167.19 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0806110629l304df5fcm2f653e37c5ef2e75@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] First Start - AGAIN In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5594_26404849.1213190974019" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: c4ec13812e033158 ------=_Part_5594_26404849.1213190974019 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Never seen an EM2 freeze up but then I've never left it running over night (not that it should hurt anything). When you say that the mixture knob made no difference, did you mean that the mixture monitor did not respond or that the engine did not respond to a change in mixture (egt change, sound of engine, etc). Assuming for the moment that the engine did not respond, the first thing to try is the backup controller. Did you try it? Did it act the same? If it did act the same, it is VERY unlikely that two controllers have failed in the same way at the same moment in time. (have you ever heard me say this before? :>) The obvious place to start is the wiring between front panel and EC2. Specifically the wire from pin 26 on EC2 to pin 15 on the front panel. (see instructions) Are they connected? Are they shorted to ground? Tracy (Colorado bound) On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Christopher Barber < CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote: > Ahhh, the joys of engine development. After fiddling with getting the > timing set (thanks to y'all for this info) I was able to start my new > engine. I ran it for a few minutes while checking for leaks etc. I was > thrilled it started again.....however........ > > I found one leak coming from the top of the engine where I had a heater > hose inlet sealed off. It was tapped out earlier but only clamped closed so > I installed a bolt with some sealant on it and recovered it with a end hose > piece and clamped it shut. This proved a better choice. > > The larger concerns are this. When the engine started the Engine Monitor > was on, and I kept a diligent eye on it. After a couple of glances at it in > the cabin while looking at the engine I realized that the monitor was not > "monitoring". I grabbed my handheld laser temp monitor and pointed it at > the engine and temp was still ok. At first I just noticed the RPM was not > regersting (my first thought was I was gonna get the NOP signal), then that > the temp was not moving. After shut down, I turned the monitor off and back > on and instantly the monitor started working again. Hmmmmmm. The monitor > was mistakenly left on overnight and I am guessing it "froze up" during this > time, but I would have not thought leaving it on would have done this. It > also worked on my three subsequent short starts. Of course my hope is > that this was an anomaly, but will stay aware that it did happen. > > However the biggest problems follows. When the engine started it was > running a little fast, but did not seem too bad and I throttled back and it > slowed a bit. When I noticed that the monitor was not processing data I > grabbed the mixture knob and turned it to slow the engine and to see if it > made any difference. Damn, the mixture knob was not doing ANYTHING. > NOTHING. Turning it from left to right made no difference. Damnit. I cut > the fuel at this point, too many issues. BTW, the prime function, cold > start switch and A/B inputs all seemed to work and would make a difference > when operated. But not the mixture knob. > > After letting the engine cool a while (the temps did rise pretty fast per > my hand held laser temp gage and I was pushing 220 after several minutes on > a hot/humid Houston summer day) I restarted to see if the engine monitor was > working. It was. However, the mixture know was not. I re-checked the other > inputs and they all worked. The engine was running pretty rough......gee, > the mixture actually makes a difference . > > After shut down I disconnected the batteries (I have installed master > battery cut-offs) and then the control module and ECU and checked the wires > between the two. This was just a quick continuity check and the wire was > good. I then took a meter and in my non electrician mode attempted to check > the actual knob. I place leads on the two prongs that seem to be soldered > to the control board and turned the knob. The numbers changed up and down > as expected when I turned the know....so it seems that the knob itself is > not the culprit, and the wire seems ok. What else should I check and/or > try? I kinda need the mixture control to work. > > Is there a way to test to to test to determine if this knob is actually > doing anything when the engine is not running?????? > > Of course my timing sucks as Tracy is about to hit Colorado.. So any > solutions y'all may be able to provide should prove especially useful. > > I anxiously await y'alls response. > > Maybe I should just go ride my loud motorcycle to think thinks through. > > Thanks again. > > All the best, > > Chris Barber > Houston > > > ------=_Part_5594_26404849.1213190974019 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Never seen an EM2 freeze up but then I've never left it running ov= er night (not that it should hurt anything).
 
When you say that the mixture knob made no difference, did you mean th= at the mixture monitor did not respond or that the engine did not respond t= o a change in mixture (egt change, sound of engine, etc).   Assum= ing for the moment that the engine did not respond, the first thing to try = is the backup controller.  Did you try it?   Did it act the = same?  If it did act the same, it is VERY unlikely that two controller= s have failed in the same way at the same moment in time.  (have you e= ver heard me say this before?  :>)  The obvious place to start= is the wiring between front panel and EC2.  Specifically the wire fro= m pin 26 on EC2 to pin 15 on the front panel.  (see instructions) &nbs= p; Are they connected?  Are they shorted to ground? 
 
Tracy  (Colorado bound)

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Christopher Ba= rber <CBarber@texasattorney= .net> wrote:
Ahhh, the joys of engine development. = After fiddling with getting the timing set (thanks to y'all for this in= fo) I was able to start my new engine.  I ran it for a few minute= s while checking for leaks etc.  I was thrilled it started again.....h= owever........
 
I found one leak coming from the top o= f the engine where I had a heater hose inlet sealed off.  It was tappe= d out earlier but only clamped closed so I installed a bolt with some seala= nt on it and recovered it with a end hose piece and clamped it shut.  = This proved a better choice.
 
The larger concerns are this.  Wh= en the engine started the Engine Monitor was on, and I kept a diligent eye = on it. After a couple of glances at it in the cabin while looking at the en= gine I realized that the monitor was not "monitoring".  = ;I grabbed my handheld laser temp monitor and pointed it at the e= ngine and temp was still ok.  At first I just noticed the RPM was= not regersting (my first thought was I was gonna get the NOP signal), then= that the temp was not moving.  After shut down, I turned the mon= itor off and back on and instantly the monitor started working again. = Hmmmmmm.  The monitor was mistakenly left on overnight and I am = guessing it "froze up" during this time, but I would have not tho= ught leaving it on would have done this.  It also worked on my three s= ubsequent short starts. Of course my hope is that this was an&nbs= p;anomaly, but will stay aware that it did happen. 
 
However the biggest problems follows. = When the engine started it was running a little fast, but did not seem too = bad and I throttled back and it slowed a bit. When I noticed that the = monitor was not processing data I grabbed the mixture knob and turned = it to slow the engine and to see if it made any difference.  Damn, the= mixture knob was not doing ANYTHING.  NOTHING.  Turning it from = left to right made no difference.   Damnit.  I cut= the fuel at this point, too many issues.  BTW, the prime function, co= ld start switch and A/B inputs all seemed to work and would make a dif= ference when operated.  But not the mixture knob.
 
After letting the engine coo= l a while (the temps did rise pretty fast per my hand held laser = temp gage and I was pushing 220 after several minutes on a hot/humid Housto= n summer day) I restarted to see if the engine monitor was working.  I= t was. However, the mixture know was not.  I re-checked the = other inputs and they all worked.  The engine was running pretty = rough......gee, the mixture actually makes a difference <g>.
 
After shut down I disconnected th= e batteries (I have installed master battery cut-offs) and then t= he control module and ECU and checked the wires between the two. = This was just a quick continuity check and the wire was good.  I then= took a meter and in my non electrician mode attempted to check the actual&= nbsp;knob.  I place leads on the two prongs that seem to be solde= red to the control board and turned the knob.  The numbers changed up = and down as expected when I turned the know....so it seems that the knob it= self is not the culprit, and the wire seems ok.  What else should I ch= eck and/or try?  I kinda need the mixture control to work.
 
Is there a way to test to to test to d= etermine if this knob is actually doing anything when the engine is not run= ning??????
 
Of course my timing sucks as Tracy is = about to hit Colorado..  So any solutions y'all may be able to pro= vide should prove especially useful.
 
I anxiously await y'alls response.=  
 
Maybe I should just go ride my loud mo= torcycle to think thinks through. <g>
 
Thanks again.
 
All the best,
 
Chris Barber
Houston
 
 
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