X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.232] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2962926 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:31:27 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.82.232; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id r21so1453663wxc.25 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:30:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=fsjvvmlbrIMoUjFISH/D0A+m+84/65EnUwN2kEWNcxQ=; b=AMy3nz4znxw7iqCf9Jgjsa8hp921lWvrPuxbIFoG8pFUhMEtZrSU6ZQ5aXYIiqjet/ hO1Kt5TgdeGXZxyoj01vRebXapT0Je1Y5yZVJGWSMI9ml7KxSrgqrcxOrHf35KUrUzKJ zvMgwSwksbNfacFhMYG1fX/ZeAD5Yn5MTQ9gw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=o1evxuNAa+yqSnEwgqLMHKWBEIDjTLy12usOTQiNIDKRSA3Z/yGm9tt1PArov4v6zO XwFRzfqVrQjXhmwtUGVJ/Xt/rmdCdVhndhac+eJ1RO54uswa4kXrau4iit1pETKPdgcr rl4Hd/x+COYWXDx8piSh8OYb8HnlZpNarPmPI= Received: by 10.70.111.20 with SMTP id j20mr7856123wxc.8.1213187444263; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.46.2 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5cf132c0806110530i1bb0823ar79b229848e0774e2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:30:44 -0500 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Sensors In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20473_9572610.1213187444278" References: ------=_Part_20473_9572610.1213187444278 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Greg, Wouldn't it be desirable to know the EGT of each rotor so you could tell what's going on in each? These would be located about an inch from the exhaust ports. There are modes in the EC-2 for adjusting the mixture of each rotor in order to balance them. Without an EGT sensor for each individual rotor, you wouldn't be able to do that. You could have a dirty injector causing a lean condition and not know it until you engine has been damaged. And if it were me, I would also want to know the TIT, so a probe on the turbo inlet would be needed. Finally, I would want to know the temperature of the compressed air after the intercooler so I wouldn't destroy my engine through detonation. My 2 cents, Mark S. On 6/11/08, Greg Ward wrote: > > As long as we're at it about sensors, how about EGT? I am turboed on th= e > 20B, and have a 3 into one collector going to the Garrett turbo. Do I wa= nt > to have individual EGT's on each pipe, or one on the exhaust side of the > turbo, or all 4? My collector pipes are only about 8-10" before they hit > the flange, so here too, I wonder where the best place is to place the > sensors. Thanks for all the input on the MAP, going to locate it close > behind the valve body. > Greg Ward > Lancair 20B, details, details, details > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Bradburry > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:32 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Sensors > > > > I have two MAP ports on the rear of my intake plenum that feed the EC-2. = I > am taking the pressure from this third port at the bottom of the manifold= to > the regulator. I have a vacuum gage=85I guess I should check the steadin= ess > and consistency of all three ports. > > > > Bill > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Al Gietzen > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:26 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Sensors > > Perhaps I should add that the original line from the sensing ports to the > pressure regulator was quite short; maybe 10"; so there was very little > damping there. > > > > My fuel pressure regulator (Airmotive) is getting its MAP from the two > small (1/8 ") tubes that lay in the primary ports on the Renesis=85Are yo= u > saying that I should move this pressure reference to someplace else? You > say you know it is not good=85How do you know this? > > > > Bill B > > Bill; > > > > I was measuring fuel pressure to the fuel rails to verify the EM2 > calibration. The needle on the gauge was swinging very rapidly from abou= t > 20 to 40. I don't recall what RPM, but I guess near idle. Perhaps stati= ng > that "it is not good" is an overstatement, and perhaps it just happened t= hat > the pressure pulses hit a resonance in the gauge; but my judgment was tha= t > it could affect the engine operation and could be damaging to something e= lse > long term. I had already put damping in MAP line to the EC2, so I decide= d > to T it into that line, and the pressure pulsing went away. > > > > I have a 3-barrel TWM TB on a short intake manifold. The MAP sensing por= ts > are just downstream of the throttle plates. > > > > Al > > ------=_Part_20473_9572610.1213187444278 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Greg,
 
Wouldn't it be desirable to know the EGT of each rotor so you= could tell what's going on in each?  These would be located about= an inch from the exhaust ports.  There are modes in the EC-2 for= adjusting the mixture of each rotor in order to balance them. &n= bsp;Without an EGT sensor for each individual rotor, you wouldn't = be able to do that.  You could have a dirty injector causing a lean co= ndition and not know it until you engine has been damaged.   = ;
 
And if it were me, I would also want to know the TIT, so a probe = on the turbo inlet would be needed. 
 
Finally, I would want to know the temperature of the compressed air af= ter the intercooler so I wouldn't destroy my engine through detonation.=  
 
My 2 cents,
Mark S.

 
On 6/11/08, = Greg Ward <gregw@onestopd= esign.biz> wrote:
As long as we're at it about sensors, how abo= ut EGT?  I am turboed on the 20B, and have a 3 into one collector goin= g to the Garrett turbo.  Do I want to have individual EGT's on eac= h pipe, or one on the exhaust side of the turbo, or all 4?  My collect= or pipes are only about 8-10" before they hit the flange, so here too,= I wonder where the best place is to place the sensors.   Thanks = for all the input on the MAP, going to locate it close behind the valv= e body.
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B, details, details, details =
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:32 PM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Sensors

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 200= 8 9:26 PM
To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft
Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: Sensors

P= erhaps I should add that the original line from the sensing ports to the pr= essure regulator was quite short; maybe 10"; so there was very little dampi= ng there.

My fuel pressure regulator (Airmotive) is gett= ing its MAP from the two small (1/8 ") tubes that lay in the primary ports = on the Renesis=85Are you saying that I should move this pressure reference = to someplace else?  You say you know it is not good=85How do you know = this?

 

Bill B 

B= ill;

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

I= was measuring fuel pressure to the fuel rails to verify the EM2 calibratio= n.  The needle on the gauge was swinging very rapidly from about 20 to= 40.  I don't recall what RPM, but I guess near idle.  Perhaps st= ating that "it is not good" is an overstatement, and perhaps it just happen= ed that the pressure pulses hit a resonance in the gauge; but my judgment w= as that it could affect the engine operation and could be damaging to somet= hing else long term.  I had already put damping in MAP line to the EC2= , so I decided to T it into that line, and the pressure pulsing went away.<= /span>

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

I= have a 3-barrel TWM TB on a short intake manifold.  The MAP sensing p= orts are just downstream of the throttle plates.

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

A= l


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