X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost05.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.55] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2959247 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 08 Jun 2008 23:52:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.55; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-146-126-237.mco.bellsouth.net[72.146.126.237]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc05) with SMTP id <20080609035207H0500ij1cke>; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 03:52:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [72.146.126.237] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Muffler failed designs. Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 23:52:10 -0400 Message-ID: <29400B2B0B684529AFA49EFBFC0EC70C@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcjJz9ii7LIkG9efQ2uGR0P2kREH5wAErEtA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18000 Greg, So you should get a cruise of about 225 Knots at 6K. That is right in the ballpark for the Legacys. I flew with Kevin Roberts a couple of weeks ago and he was cruising at 222 knots. There is another Legacy at Deland, Fl that I heard was getting about 240. I am really curious about the takeoff and climb performance you will get. I am concerned about my prop with only 88" of pitch. You have an extra blade to help there though. I never heard what diameter and pitch Tracy has on his Catto prop for the 20B. He should be able to cruise that RV-8 close to Vne! I am hoping for 200 mph with my fixed gear and Renesis. If it ever gets itself finished. (I need to move next door to Rusty!) Bill B -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:33 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Muffler failed designs. Hey Bill; It's a 76" prop, 130" pitch. Target rpm 310 mph@2456 rpm. Now you know why I need a turbo. Lead time varies. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Muffler failed designs. > That is a LOT of pitch! What are the dimensions of that prop? How long > was > the lead time? > > Bill B > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Greg Ward > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 5:09 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Muffler failed designs. > > Shortly Bill, just got my prop from Craig Cato today, and want to hang it, > then take a bunch of pics. Enclosed is a little teaser from this morning. > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Bradburry" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:36 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Muffler failed designs. > > >> Greg, >> Do you have any pictures anywhere of your install? >> >> Bill B >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On >> Behalf Of Greg Ward >> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 10:25 PM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Muffler failed designs. >> >> A little off of the subject, but close. Just got my engine and turbo >> mounted on the Lancair, and was wondering if anyone had ever exited the >> 3" >> downpipe right out of the side of the cowling, ala turbine exhaust types, >> (thrust???) it would eliminate 2 bends, and about 3' of pipe, and with >> the >> turbo, it should be relatively quiet. Any thoughts? >> Greg Ward; >> Lancair Legacy RG 20B getting closer to startup....... >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 4:08 PM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Muffler failed designs. >> >> >>> Al, >>> >>> If you go through the archives, you'll find lots of examples of >>> failed muffler designs. Many by your's truly. I think I've tried every >>> concoction known to man and the Swiss. They all worked... for a while. >>> >>> Actually, the many variations of the Swiss muffler I tried had the >>> best exhaust note by far. None lasted more than an hour, some less than >>> a >>> few minutes. Heat wasn't so much the problem since I had found many >>> materials good to 2200F but none could stand the pounding. >>> http://www.piteraq.dk/flight/muffler.html >>> >>> My best overall design (see attached) is a 2" tube, full of holes >>> inside a 5" tube. All made of 16ga SS, all welded together. Needless >>> to >>> say, the flange is more like 3/16" - 1/4" SS. The inside end of the 2" >>> tube >>> is welded to the end cap of the 5" tube. That blocks off the one end of >>> the >>> 2" tube and secures it from movement. The exhaust end of the 2" tube is >>> welded through a 2" hole in the other 5" end cap. Rather than drilling >>> the >>> 2" tube full of round holes, we cut slots with a saw. Then take a big >>> flat >>> blade screwdriver, stick it in the slot and bend it over. This creates >>> an >>> oblong hole. (Much easier than drilling into SS. This is what will go >>> on >>> the Volmer. >>> >>> The sound is quite acceptable, it fits inside the cowl and Jim M.'s >>> version lasted the life of the aircraft... 600+ hours. >>> >>> Neil >>> >>> PS: Are you considering Rough River? >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On >>> Behalf Of Al Wick >>> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 4:57 PM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral Crash Analysis >>> >>> C'mon guys. You do this every time there's a crash. Instantly go into >>> rationalization mode. It's unhealthy. Greatly increases risk builders >>> won't >>> take action. Increases risk you won't research it thoroughly. >>> >>> A healthy response would be:" Here's another example of how our engines >>> produce unusually destructive exhaust temperature and pulses. We have a >>> rich >>> >>> history of broken exhaust components. We need to be very thorough when >>> designing and building exhaust." >>> >>> I designed my own muffler. It had two inlets, two outlets. So if (when) >>> my >>> muffler failed, it could never block both pipes. I also put loose safety >>> wire around my pipes, because on a pusher loosing pipe wipes out prop. >>> So >>> basically, I assume stuff will fail, then design it to control the way >>> it >>> fails. I've heard of rotary guys doing same type of thing. This is a >>> good >>> time to share those key items. >>> >>> On your car, they deliberately design products to fail a certain way. >>> They >>> will make a component weak, so it fails first. They do that with wheels >>> and >>> hubs. So when the muffler fails, little pieces come apart, not big >>> sections? >>> >>> You guys do a great job of sharing successes, design and construction >>> details. This is another opportunity. >>> >>> -al wick >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> predisposed >>> to bad mouth the rotary - this will only be more ammunition. "See! even >>> with umpteen million dollars you can't get one to fly" {:>). But, I >>> serious doubt it will effect many who have researched the rotary and >>> come >>> to >>> >>> understand its benefits - as for the rest, who cares {:>) >>>> >>> >>> I'm certain it was a relief to Mistral that the culprit was not one of >>> their engine components. >>> >>> >>> >>> Whew! a close one for sure. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Ed, >>> >>> >>> >>> Unfortunately, I bet the majority of people will only hear "Mistral >>> rotary", "lost power", and "crash" :-( >>> >>> >>> >>> Rusty (RV-3 taking forever.) >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Orlando Vacations - Click Here! >>> >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nK7u59LkagfZ5IcEgGqYcvPRC >>> wA85GgQITbFK9vE7wPGKFP/ >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html