X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost05.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2955189 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:21:59 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.105; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from fwebmail04.isp.att.net ([204.127.218.104]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc05) with SMTP id <20080605202122H0500iq6hae>; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:21:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.218.104] Received: from [64.250.201.123] by fwebmail04.isp.att.net; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:21:21 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Rotor face temps Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:21:21 +0000 Message-Id: <060520082021.14207.48484AC0000748170000377F22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 10 2008) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14207_1212697281_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14207_1212697281_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lynn, A simple drawing would help my old brain visualize what the rotor would look like for a 4 rotor engine on a 2 lobe excentric shaft.......I presume the rotors would be geared differently to the stationary gears to maintain the various cycles........ -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from "Lynn Hanover" : -------------- There is still plenty to think about with the rotary engine. Fresh minds look at an old lump and say why don't we try this. In most cases the old thinking could not have included the newer technology available now. So, never say that won't work. What you already know for sure could be wrong next week. The drag racers install alignment dowels all along the combustion side of the engines to keep the housings from flexing as they push the boost over 30 pounds and HP over 800. You cannot cool it at all, but for 9 seconds it isn't a problem. The tires are now the problem. And since they are not cooling it anyway, what if they had housings that were cast solid with no cooling passages at all? The Aussies add a roller bearing set to the center iron to help support the crank when turning over 11,000 RPM. I had one go over 13,000 RPM without the center bearings, but it took a whole day to get it to run again. The driver selected first while trying for 3rd. There are some obvious paths being investigated (I hope) like direct high pressure injection between the plugs. Since there is no fuel until just before the plugs fire, there can be no detonation, and detonation limits the amount of boost you can use. Or shouldn't we cut up 4 rotors, mill off the one side of each and furnace braze them back together to have a 4 rotor on a two lobe crank? Shouldn't we have a housing running as a supercharger (the original intent of the guy who patented the shapes before Wankel was as a compressor) and geared to the crank? Could we run excess boost through an intercooler, and release it onto the engine intercooler to help chill the intercooler? I have to stop now the voices are calling me to the shop. Lynn E. Hanover Power loss will come form oil temps out of control. Anything over 160 on the oil and power starts down. The mixture runs right into that rotor and it is at about 350 degrees. So much mass is lost to expansion before the port closes. --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14207_1212697281_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14207_1212697281_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14207_1212697281_1 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Lynn,

A simple drawing would help my old brain visualize what the rotor

would look like for a 4 rotor engine on a 2 lobe excentric shaft.......I

presume the rotors would be geared differently to the stationary gears

to maintain the various cycles........

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

-------------- Original message from "Lynn Hanover" <lehanover@gmail.com>: --------------

There is still plenty to think about with the rotary engine. Fresh minds look at an old lump and say why don't we try this. In most cases the old thinking could not have included the newer technology available now.

So, never say that won't work. What you already know for sure could be wrong next week.

The drag racers install alignment dowels all along the combustion side of the engines to keep the housings from flexing as they push the boost over 30 pounds and HP over 800. You cannot cool it at all, but for 9 seconds it isn't a problem. The tires are now the problem. And since they are not cooling it anyway, what if they had housings that were cast solid with no cooling passages at all? The Aussies add a roller bearing set to the center iron to help support the crank when turning over 11,000 RPM. I had one go over 13,000 RPM without the center bearings, but it took a whole day to get it to run again. The driver selected first while trying for 3rd.

There are some obvious paths being investigated (I hope) like direct high pressure injection between the plugs.

Since there is no fuel until just before the plugs fire, there can be no detonation, and detonation limits the amount of boost you can use. Or shouldn't we cut up 4 rotors, mill off the one side of each and furnace braze them back together to have a 4 rotor on a two lobe crank? Shouldn't we have a housing running as a supercharger (the original intent of the guy who patented the shapes before Wankel was as a compressor) and geared to the crank?

Could we run excess boost through an intercooler, and release it onto the engine intercooler to help chill the intercooler? I have to stop now the voices are calling me to the shop.

Lynn E. Hanover

Power loss will come form oil temps out of control. Anything over 160 on the oil and power starts down. The mixture runs right into that rotor and it is at about 350 degrees. So much mass is lost to expansion before the port closes.

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