X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2954714 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:39:30 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.132.243; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b38so125602ana.81 for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=OUW1D3Cjxm0Eo9DOgphG7R9O8UdWpCIMo72R/tZyZSQ=; b=R84uoF4hkOTyJ70/SXMHafmV4hUfZRWI/AoMYuiucgJjxQTybHy8QwA5xHIhvp/z4I aCta4FN7HBLKSLiEB5pWgNZmRalROL2wXFz2EAAVBgCPnNbdHZWw9chp0DOexQO7TuBo RezTip5yL6QcBweg7dkTUiL7Vs6r2AWCctEV0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=eFoel6nBH9CghA29r0vgyXUqkI3eC76cTyteM+M0xTIaj0PNxjUS/aQ9IqwMjjDLa3 ca2WkKohN9Ed7gzELQCDgo0YtlhueMP/FvqJPVewbw85h1RXlKrWdSW+6lDQQqHm5+oH UZfvA9Hy+GLk+rwichLTd439yG8JfSXjmaq0k= Received: by 10.101.70.15 with SMTP id x15mr2541700ank.116.1212676730976; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 07:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.167.19 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 07:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0806050738k4dd82a12xce1efb96ec252d96@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:38:50 -0400 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Timing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4677_2539553.1212676730925" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 02fe7a06a0b0b2c2 ------=_Part_4677_2539553.1212676730925 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Al G. gave the right answer for NA engines but it is a bit higher (~19") on turbo models. But, in any case, it is programmable to anything you want by setting it in Mode 7. I tend to like the injectors close to the port but it is not critical unless you get carried away. Way out at the far end (a-la Paul L's advice) is a recipe for hard starting and rough idle. Tracy On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Greg Ward wrote: > A quick question for Tracy, or ? At what rpm does the ECU fire the > secondary injectors. Also, trying to figure out where to place them in > terms of the distance from the ports on the new manifold, any ideas on that? > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Bradburry > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 04, 2008 8:40 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Timing > > Chris, > > This is from an msg from Mark Steitle back in 2005. > > > > " Joe, > > There was a posting some time back explaining how to find TDC, but a search > of my archives didn't turn it up. I think it was Lynn Hanover who explained > how to do this, but I won't bet my life on that. This process worked for me > on my 20B. So, I'll try to explain it for you. > > > > Remove spark plugs for easy engine rotation. On #1 rotor (nearest front > cover) rotate the engine in the normal direction until you can see an apex > seal in the exact center of the trailing spark plug hole. Mark a convenient > tooth on the flywheel. (Helps to make a pointer) Then rotate the engine > backwards until you can see an apex seal in the exact center of the leading > plug hole. Make another mark on the flywheel using the same reference point > as before. Now count the number of teeth between the two marks and place a > mark on this tooth. Rotate the engine back again to align this tooth with > the pointer. This will be TDC. Now you can mark the crank pulley at the > pointer on the front cover, or just use the this new mark on the flywheel > instead. > > > > Mark S. > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *On > Behalf Of *Christopher Barber > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:25 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Initial Timing > > As y'all may remember I just built from mostly new parts a 13b to replace > the one that I think I overheated to the point that coolant was in the rotor > chambers. > > > > I have spent the last few weeks since the build and a repair of the PSRU by > Tracy rerunning wires to better routes, shortening wire runs (since I made > most wire way too long.....to be fair to myself, the Velocity has a 17 foot > + run from the IP to the engine/firewall so a bit of excess was expected). > While I was doing all of this I kept tinkering with the engine to verify > installation and clean up and put things in a more "flight ready' condition > since most of the concepts have now been proven. > > > > ANYWAY, I am now ready to try to start the engine for the first time. I > believe I have all the hoses connected, the wires secure etc, however, I am > not sure as to how to set the initial timing. I know this has been > discussed but I am not sure where. I have an aftermarket front pulley that > was purchased by my building assistant David Staten but do not have the docs > to it. The Haynes manual and factory book seems very light on the topic and > make reference to a yellow lead mark which my pulley does not have. Dave > mentioned a rule of thumb as to setting the crank angle sensor etc close > enough to get the engine started, but for the life of me I do not recall > what it was. Dave is currently a bit out of the loop (I will try to contact > him in the next day or two as well) so y'all's help would be great. > > > > Thanks to Tracy's test modes I know I have spark plugs a sparkin' and > injectors injecting, if I can just get them to play nicely with the timing I > should once again have a running engine.....hopefully I will know enough > this time not to ruin it. > > > > As always, thanks. > > > > All the best, > > > > Chris Barber > > Houston > > ------=_Part_4677_2539553.1212676730925 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Al G. gave the right answer for NA engines but it is a bit higher (~19= ") on turbo models.  But, in any case, it is programmable to anyt= hing you want by setting it in Mode 7. 
 
 I tend to like the injectors close to the port but it is not cri= tical unless you get carried away.  Way out at the far end (a-la Paul = L's advice) is a recipe for hard starting and rough idle. 
 
Tracy

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Greg Ward <gregw@onestopdesign.biz> wr= ote:
A quick question for Tracy, or ?  At what rp= m does the ECU fire the secondary injectors.  Also, trying to figure o= ut where to place them in terms of the distance from the ports on the new m= anifold, any ideas on that?
Greg
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 8:40 = PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tim= ing

Joe,

There was a posting some time back = explaining how to find TDC, but a search of my archives didn't turn it up.&= nbsp; I think it was Lynn Hanover who explained how to do this, but I won't= bet my life on that.  This process worked for me on my 20B.  So,= I'll try to explain it for you. 

 

Remove spark plugs for easy engine = rotation.  On #1 rotor (nearest front cover) rotate the engine in the = normal direction until you can see an apex seal in the exact center of the = trailing spark plug hole.  Mark a convenient tooth on the flywheel.&nb= sp; (Helps to make a pointer)  Then rotate the engine backwards until = you can see an apex seal in the exact center of the leading plug hole. = ; Make another mark on the flywheel using the same reference point as befor= e.  Now count the number of teeth between the two marks and place a ma= rk on this tooth.  Rotate the engine back again to align this tooth wi= th the pointer.  This will be TDC.  Now you can mark the crank pu= lley at the pointer on the front cover, or just use the this new mark on th= e flywheel instead. 

 

Mark S.

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et] On Behalf Of Christ= opher Barber
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2= 008 11:25 PM
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft
Subject:<= /b> [FlyRotary] Initial Timing

As y'all may remember I just built from mostly new parts a = 13b to replace the one that I think I overheated to the point that coolant = was in the rotor chambers.

I have spent the last few weeks since the build and a repair of= the PSRU by Tracy rerunning wires to better routes, shortening wire runs (= since I made most wire way too long.....to be fair to myself, the Velocity = has a 17 foot + run from the IP to the engine/firewall so a bit of excess w= as expected).  While I was doing all of this I kept tinkering with the= engine to verify installation and clean up  and put things in a more = "flight ready' condition since most of the concepts have now been = proven.

ANYWAY, I am now ready to try to start the engine for the first= time.  I believe I have all the hoses connected, the wires secure etc= , however, I am not sure as to how to set the initial timing.  I know = this has been discussed but I am not sure where. I have an aftermarket= front pulley that was purchased by my building assistant David Staten but = do not have the docs to it.  The Haynes manual and factory book seems = very light on the topic and make reference to a yellow lead mark which my p= ulley does not have. Dave mentioned a rule of thumb as to setting the crank= angle sensor etc close enough to get the engine started, but for the life = of me I do not recall what it was. Dave is currently a bit out of the loop = (I will try to contact him in the next day or two as well) so y'all'= ;s help would be great.

Thanks to Tracy's test modes I know I have spark plugs= a sparkin' and injectors injecting, if I can just get them to play nic= ely with the timing I should once again have a running engine.....hope= fully I will know enough this time not to ruin it.

As always, thanks.

All the best,

Chris Barber

Houston

<= /div>

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