X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao107.cox.net ([68.230.241.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2954116 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 02:00:08 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.39; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20080605055926.XCRB1505.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 01:59:26 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.137.74]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id a5zU1Z0011cVYgg045zUv8; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 01:59:28 -0400 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Timing Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 22:59:17 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01c8c6d9$ac49cde0$6401a8c0@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C8C696.9E268DE0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C8C696.9E268DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's not a mater of RPM; it's a matter of MAP. I'm not sure of the = current default, but I think 17.5" hg. I'd put the secondary injectors maybe 10" from the port. Close enough = for good operation cold, far enough for good vaporization before the port. = Or find out what Mistral did and copy. =20 Al =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:21 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Timing =20 A quick question for Tracy, or ? At what rpm does the ECU fire the secondary injectors. Also, trying to figure out where to place them in terms of the distance from the ports on the new manifold, any ideas on = that? Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Timing =20 Chris, This is from an msg from Mark Steitle back in 2005. =20 " Joe, There was a posting some time back explaining how to find TDC, but a = search of my archives didn't turn it up. I think it was Lynn Hanover who = explained how to do this, but I won't bet my life on that. This process worked = for me on my 20B. So, I'll try to explain it for you. =20 =20 Remove spark plugs for easy engine rotation. On #1 rotor (nearest front cover) rotate the engine in the normal direction until you can see an = apex seal in the exact center of the trailing spark plug hole. Mark a = convenient tooth on the flywheel. (Helps to make a pointer) Then rotate the = engine backwards until you can see an apex seal in the exact center of the = leading plug hole. Make another mark on the flywheel using the same reference = point as before. Now count the number of teeth between the two marks and = place a mark on this tooth. Rotate the engine back again to align this tooth = with the pointer. This will be TDC. Now you can mark the crank pulley at = the pointer on the front cover, or just use the this new mark on the = flywheel instead. =20 =20 Mark S. Bill B =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Initial Timing As y'all may remember I just built from mostly new parts a 13b to = replace the one that I think I overheated to the point that coolant was in the = rotor chambers. =20 I have spent the last few weeks since the build and a repair of the PSRU = by Tracy rerunning wires to better routes, shortening wire runs (since I = made most wire way too long.....to be fair to myself, the Velocity has a 17 = foot + run from the IP to the engine/firewall so a bit of excess was = expected). While I was doing all of this I kept tinkering with the engine to verify installation and clean up and put things in a more "flight ready' = condition since most of the concepts have now been proven. =20 ANYWAY, I am now ready to try to start the engine for the first time. I believe I have all the hoses connected, the wires secure etc, however, I = am not sure as to how to set the initial timing. I know this has been discussed but I am not sure where. I have an aftermarket front pulley = that was purchased by my building assistant David Staten but do not have the = docs to it. The Haynes manual and factory book seems very light on the topic = and make reference to a yellow lead mark which my pulley does not have. Dave mentioned a rule of thumb as to setting the crank angle sensor etc close enough to get the engine started, but for the life of me I do not recall what it was. Dave is currently a bit out of the loop (I will try to = contact him in the next day or two as well) so y'all's help would be great. =20 Thanks to Tracy's test modes I know I have spark plugs a sparkin' and injectors injecting, if I can just get them to play nicely with the = timing I should once again have a running engine.....hopefully I will know enough this time not to ruin it. =20 As always, thanks. =20 All the best, =20 Chris Barber Houston ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C8C696.9E268DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It’s not a mater of RPM; = it’s a matter of MAP.  I’m not sure of the current default, but I = think 17.5” hg.

I’d put the secondary = injectors maybe 10” from the port.  Close enough for good operation = cold, far enough for good vaporization before the port.  Or find out what = Mistral did and copy.

 

Al

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, = 2008 9:21 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Initial Timing

 

A quick question for Tracy, = or ?  At what rpm does the ECU fire the secondary injectors.  = Also, trying to figure out where to place them in terms of the distance from = the ports on the new manifold, any ideas on that?

Greg

=

----- Original Message = -----

Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 8:40 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Timing

 

Chris,

This is from an msg from Mark Steitle back in = 2005.

 

“ Joe,

There was a = posting some time back explaining how to find TDC, but a search of my archives = didn’t turn it up.  I think it was Lynn Hanover who explained how to do = this, but I won’t bet my life on that.  This process worked for me on = my 20B.  So, I’ll try to explain it for you.  =

 

Remove spark = plugs for easy engine rotation.  On #1 rotor (nearest front cover) rotate the = engine in the normal direction until you can see an apex seal in the exact = center of the trailing spark plug hole.  Mark a convenient tooth on the flywheel.  (Helps to make a pointer)  Then rotate the engine backwards until you can see an apex seal in the exact center of the = leading plug hole.  Make another mark on the flywheel using the same = reference point as before.  Now count the number of teeth between the two = marks and place a mark on this tooth.  Rotate the engine back again to align = this tooth with the pointer.  This will be TDC.  Now you can mark = the crank pulley at the pointer on the front cover, or just use the this new = mark on the flywheel instead. 

 

Mark = S.

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, = 2008 11:25 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Initial Timing

As y'all may remember I = just built from mostly new parts a 13b to replace the one that I think I overheated = to the point that coolant was in the rotor chambers.

 

I have spent the last few = weeks since the build and a repair of the PSRU by Tracy rerunning wires to = better routes, shortening wire runs (since I made most wire way too long.....to = be fair to myself, the Velocity has a 17 foot + run from the IP to the = engine/firewall so a bit of excess was expected).  While I was doing all of this I = kept tinkering with the engine to verify installation and clean up  and = put things in a more "flight ready' condition since most of the = concepts have now been proven.

 

ANYWAY, I am now ready to = try to start the engine for the first time.  I believe I have all the = hoses connected, the wires secure etc, however, I am not sure as to how to set = the initial timing.  I know this has been discussed but I am not sure = where. I have an aftermarket front pulley that was purchased by my building = assistant David Staten but do not have the docs to it.  The Haynes manual and factory book seems very light on the topic and make reference to a = yellow lead mark which my pulley does not have. Dave mentioned a rule of thumb as to setting the crank angle sensor etc close enough to get the engine = started, but for the life of me I do not recall what it was. Dave is currently a bit = out of the loop (I will try to contact him in the next day or two as well) so = y'all's help would be great.

 

Thanks to Tracy's test = modes I know I have spark plugs a sparkin' and injectors injecting, if I can = just get them to play nicely with the timing I should once again have a = running engine.....hopefully I will know enough this time not to ruin = it.

 

As always, = thanks.

 

All the = best,

 

Chris = Barber

Houston

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