X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2778327 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:06:00 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080305160519.RFHS15790.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:05:19 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c87eda$b91b17f0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Exhaust Wrap was [FlyRotary] Re: Exhaust? Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:05:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C87EB0.CFE822E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C87EB0.CFE822E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For what its worth, Greg, I turbocharged a couple of Honda Civics back = in the mid 1970s. =20 The exhaust was made out of mild steel and I did wrap one set of headers = with heat shield tape. The tubes did not last three months before one = sprung a small leak, it was on the underside so I did not catch it. I = had fortunately installed an oil pressure gauge because half way through = a 600 mile trip I happened to notice the oil pressure headed downward. It turns out the exhaust leak was impinging on a stainless steel = braided line used to return the oil from turbo to oil plan. The heat = had charred the rubber liner of the hose and oil was rapidly leaking out = the stainless steel line - if it had been under pressure and oil had = sprayed on the hot turbo/exhaust pipes, my first indication might have = been a fire under the hood. There are other methods of shielding things from the radiant heat = (positioning, coatings, SS sheets, Thermofax, etc) that do not incur the = risk of "hiding" your exhaust tubing with tapes/wrap. In a car, where = you can shut off the engine and pull off the road - it might be an = acceptable risk to some, but I just do not think any sort of exhaust = wrap belongs in an aircraft. It might work just fine - but, if it does = not........., ..but, just my opinion. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:21 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Exhaust? was [FlyRotary] engine installation = pictures No answers to any of these questions Bill. I will call Brian tomorrow = and see what's up, and get some specifics. He brought it up because we = have been talking about the turbocharging issue, and how/where to locate = all of the parts, including shielding. Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: WRJJRS@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:57 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Exhaust? was [FlyRotary] engine = installation pictures In a message dated 3/4/2008 8:32:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, = gregw@onestopdesign.biz writes: Yeah, and my friend in SoCal, the Racer again, says that the 20B = racers down there wrap, and it really helps. But then again, = racers...... Greg Greg, And they tested this how? With what instrumentation? So you know I = have built racing cars and bikes for others and I have road raced = motorcycles myself. The only coating or wrap I could find that worked = was the Jet-Hot coating. That was on a motorcycle. The in cowl temps = were reduced by 15=B0F. There wasn't any HP increase that I could = determine reliably. I did record an increase on the wheel dyno but not = enough to be certain it wasn't just different temp and baro pressure = conditions. The rotary exhaust temperature is so much hotter that = Jet-Hot has only had a suitable coating for about a year and a half. I'd = try that if you must. Shielding, even thin and close has proven to be = effective, as has zirconia ceramic blanket. The wrap may not have = actually caused the cracking on the exhaust system mentioned previously = but it certainly makes it impossible to detect cracks before they get = dangerous. I'd stay away from wraps for just that reason. Bill Jepson -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C87EB0.CFE822E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For what its worth, Greg,  I turbocharged a = couple of=20 Honda Civics back in the mid 1970s. 
 
The exhaust was made out of mild steel and I did = wrap one set=20 of headers with heat shield tape.  The tubes did not = last three=20  months before one sprung a small leak, it was on the underside so = I did=20 not catch it.  I had fortunately installed an oil pressure gauge = because=20 half way through a 600 mile trip I happened to notice the oil pressure = headed=20 downward.
 
  It turns out the exhaust leak was impinging = on a=20 stainless steel braided line used to return the oil from turbo to oil=20 plan.  The heat had charred the rubber liner of the hose and oil = was=20 rapidly leaking out the stainless steel line - if it had been under = pressure and=20 oil had sprayed on the hot turbo/exhaust pipes, my first indication = might have=20 been a fire under the hood.
 
There are other methods of shielding things from the = radiant=20 heat (positioning, coatings, SS sheets, Thermofax, etc) that do not = incur the=20 risk of "hiding" your exhaust tubing with tapes/wrap. In a car, where = you can=20 shut off the engine and pull off the road - it might be an acceptable = risk to=20 some, but I just do not think any sort of exhaust wrap belongs in an=20 aircraft.  It might work just fine - but, if it does not........., = ..but,=20 just my opinion.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg=20 Ward
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 = 2:21=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Exhaust? was=20 [FlyRotary] engine installation pictures

No answers to any of these questions Bill.  I = will call=20 Brian tomorrow and see what's up, and get some specifics.  He = brought it=20 up because we have been talking about the turbocharging issue, and = how/where=20 to locate all of the parts, including shielding.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 WRJJRS@aol.com=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 = 10:57=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Exhaust? was=20 [FlyRotary] engine installation pictures

In a message dated 3/4/2008 8:32:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, = gregw@onestopdesign.biz=20 writes:
Yeah, and my friend in SoCal, the Racer = again, says=20 that the 20B racers down there wrap, and it really helps.  = But then=20 again, racers......
Greg
Greg,
And they tested this how? With what instrumentation? So you = know I have=20 built racing cars and bikes for others and I have road raced = motorcycles=20 myself. The only coating or wrap I could find that worked was the = Jet-Hot=20 coating. That was on a motorcycle. The in cowl temps were reduced by = 15=B0F.=20 There wasn't any HP increase that I could determine reliably. I did = record=20 an increase on the wheel dyno but not enough to be certain it wasn't = just=20 different temp and baro pressure conditions. The rotary exhaust = temperature=20 is so much hotter that Jet-Hot has only had a suitable coating for = about a=20 year and a half. I'd try that if you must. Shielding, even thin and = close=20 has proven to be effective, as has zirconia ceramic blanket. The = wrap may=20 not have actually caused the cracking on the exhaust system = mentioned=20 previously but it certainly makes it impossible to detect cracks = before they=20 get dangerous. I'd stay away from wraps for just that reason.
Bill Jepson



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