X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.142.191] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2734700 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:06:36 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.142.191; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b8so801345tic.1 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:05:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=X2dq5SYSdxqArbYltlf3cSdY4Yuc0YFisNNhLoWI0Ps=; b=cCxwlF1+tGUFX8n5GX8Xa2xbgE7dze9EuVEoklSEBNqiU638+6tu2Gjr7EqXniiezaHbq673oqfxR+P5hxltdWZGbWC/A+CZyiNgusalYnCMJu/0WFXuDGhjCefdIG98OtHuM+JmzZ5EThgQKl+D3TODM12Zy83HVJM4TvOmuZU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=VY9HoOXkdKZbeydNfDrJUSe3fj+ERDDDfZkVoNhObSap8/+pAyCUZwZog6zaj3fmNQnYMqjfhDwBU8dPj5gm4dHH98S80D/RTfcIWCZYEorPgPLtI/ulY9vdBhylSCDI6ke7IafsoACm4LhwWJcWwEoSYc0C/qeJf0kz/nj5QkI= Received: by 10.110.86.3 with SMTP id j3mr3301986tib.9.1203339956829; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.20.3 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:05:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5cf132c0802180505l63847a7tc418986cfb28568a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:05:56 -0600 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: staging In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5978_17474360.1203339956725" References: ------=_Part_5978_17474360.1203339956725 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ed, Will this procedure work with different sized injectors? Don has 295cc primaries and 610cc secondaries. Seems like that would present a problem. Mark S. 25.5 hrs On 2/17/08, Ed Anderson wrote: > > Hang in there, Don > > Most of us have experience similar frustration - if with perhaps different > problems. > > Here is one thing I can think of. You stated it does not buck with the > secondary injectors disconnected. Do you have the injector disable switches > installed? When you say disconnect - I presume you mean unplug the > electrical connectors - or is turning off power to the secondary with the > disable switch?? > > In any case, here is what I would do, I would disconnect the electrical > connection to the primary injectors - pull the electrical connector off the > primary and plug them into the secondary injectors. Turn the secondary > disable switch off. IF the engine runs fine with the secondary now then > you have shown that the problem is not the secondary injectors. If it > still bucks then you could have a bad injector. > > I used to have a bad stumble when the secondary injectors were turned on > by the EC2. I had though it was too rich as well, but when I finally hooked > my EFSIM monitor and could see the air/fuel ratio indictor as well as the > bars of the fuel map. I found out it was going too lean, enriching > (increasing height of fuel map bars) eliminated the stumble. > > I don't have an EM2 so can't help you with why it is intermittent in > displaying pressure. > > But, try switching injectors wires and if you do disconnect (as opposed > to disabling with the disable switch) remember that the EC2 has no way of > knowing the two you disconnected are no longer connected. So you need to > place the disable switch to off(ground) for whichever set of injectors you > don't want operating for the test. Otherwise, the EC2 will still assume all > 4 injectors are ready to fire and it will reduce the pulse width to the > injectors by 1/2 when it goes from two to four injectors. If only 2 > injectors are connected then you will only be 1/2 the fuel to the engine > that it needs. By using the disable switch to turn off one of the pair, the > EC2 will automatically double the Pulse width to the two remaining > injectors. > > So if you are only using two injectors with one pair disconnected, you > should turn the disable switch to off for the disconnected pair. > > Hopefully someone else can provide more helpful suggestion > > Ed > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Don Wallker > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:23 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] staging > > > The list has been a little quiet lately, so here goes. I'm the guy who > couldn't get his Renesis going. Turns out a capacitor was missing for the > EC-2. Then it would only start on a rare occation. Turns out it needed a > 1000 ohm resistor across the CAS line as noise was changing the timing. > Now, Stageing is difficult. Auto tune isn't really working and I have > resolved that I will do it manually. It kind of works, but takes a long > time and it's easier to just do it manually. My suspicion is that the > manifold pressure is not holding steady enough, but now I am not so sure. I > even added 2 ports near the throttle body, but it is still erratic. Even > teed them together with the back ports. Now back to staging. > I get up to 19 inches, the staging * turns off and the engine start > bucking. Tryed mode 6, setting for larger injectors (I am running stock > renesis 295 primaries and 610 secondaries) Still bucks. Tried mode 6 > turning down flow rate. At about 20 inches I was able to get it to even > out, but it still bucks at 19, 19.5 and it bucks so bad that I can't get > it to 21. I assume it is flooding as I was able to get it to run at 20 > inches, but can't get it to change at any other setting. The EM-2 is > erratic. The grafical mixture moniter, works and displays most of the time > at lower manifold settings, but the higher the setting, the less it > displays. At 19 inches, it only displays about 5% of the time. Kind of hard > to set things if I have no feedback. Even stuck in a new O2 sensor to no > avail. I can't run it long at these power levels, as I quickly get to 210 > degrees. My suspicion is there is a root cause of all this EM-2 erratic > displaey stuff. My very uneducated guess is that electical noise is causing > all these problems. Your thoughts?? Solutions? > To add more problems, at high temps, I heard a squeel, then it stopped. > Then it happened again. I didn't know what it was, so shut down. Couldn't > get it restarted. Pumps sounded funny and no fuel pressure. Seems pumps > over heated and cavitated as 5 minuets later, they started working. They > are shielded and with a cool tube blowing on them. Apparently not enough. > Your suggestions are very appreciated. Tracy??? Oh, yeah. If I disconnect > the secondary injectors, it won't buck. > > Don Walker > Frustrated RV-8 renesis builder > > Now I'm e-mailing the Dynon list to find out why it won't display GPS data > > ------=_Part_5978_17474360.1203339956725 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Ed,
Will this procedure work with different sized injectors?  Don has= 295cc primaries and 610cc secondaries.  Seems like that would present= a problem. 
 
Mark S.
25.5 hrs

 
On 2/17/08, = Ed Anderson <eanderson@= carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Hang in there, Don
 
Most of us have experience similar frustration - = if with perhaps different problems.
 
Here is one thing I can think of.  You state= d it does not buck with the secondary injectors disconnected.  Do you = have the injector disable switches installed?  When you say disconnect= - I presume you mean unplug the electrical connectors - or is turning= off power to the secondary with the disable switch?? 
 
  In any case, here is what I would do, I wo= uld disconnect the electrical connection to the primary injectors - pull th= e electrical connector off the primary and plug them into the secondary inj= ectors.  Turn the secondary disable switch off.  IF the engine ru= ns fine with the secondary now  then you have shown that the problem&n= bsp; is not the secondary injectors.  If it still bucks then you could= have a bad injector.
 
I used to have a bad stumble when the secondary i= njectors were turned on by the EC2.  I had though it was too rich as w= ell, but when I finally hooked my EFSIM monitor and could see the air/fuel = ratio indictor as well as the bars of the fuel map.  I found out it wa= s going too lean, enriching (increasing height of fuel map bars) eliminated= the stumble.  
 
I don't have an EM2 so can't help you wit= h why it is intermittent in displaying pressure.
 
  But, try switching injectors wires and if = you do disconnect (as opposed to disabling with the disable switch) remembe= r that the EC2 has no way of knowing the two you disconnected are no l= onger connected.  So you need to place the disable switch to off(groun= d) for whichever set of injectors you don't want operating for the test= .  Otherwise, the EC2 will still assume all 4 injectors are ready to f= ire and it will reduce the pulse width to the injectors by 1/2 when it goes= from two to four injectors.  If only 2 injectors are connected then y= ou will only be 1/2 the fuel to the engine that it needs.  By using th= e disable switch to turn off one of the pair, the EC2 will automatically do= uble the Pulse width to the two remaining injectors.
 
So if you are only using two injectors with one p= air disconnected, you should turn the disable switch to off for the disconn= ected pair.
 
Hopefully someone else can provide more helpful s= uggestion
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Wallker
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:= 23 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] staging

 
The list has been a little quiet latel= y, so here goes.  I'm the guy who couldn't get his Renesis goi= ng. Turns out a capacitor was missing for the EC-2.  Then it would onl= y start on a rare occation.  Turns out it needed a 1000 ohm resistor a= cross the CAS line as noise was changing the timing.  Now, Stageing is= difficult.  Auto tune isn't really working and I have resolved th= at I will do it manually.  It kind of works, but takes a long time and= it's easier to just do it manually.  My suspicion is that the man= ifold pressure is not holding steady enough, but now I am not so sure. = ; I even added 2 ports near the throttle body, but it is still erratic.&nbs= p; Even teed them together with the back ports.  Now back to staging.&= nbsp;
I get up to 19 inches, the staging&nbs= p;* turns off and the engine start bucking.  Tryed mode 6, setting for= larger injectors (I am running stock renesis 295 primaries and 610 seconda= ries)  Still bucks.  Tried mode 6 turning down flow rate.  A= t about 20 inches I was able to get it to even out, but it still bucks at 1= 9, 19.5 and it bucks so bad that I can't get it to 21.  I assume i= t is flooding as I was able to get it to run at 20 inches, but can't ge= t it to change at any other setting.  The EM-2 is erratic.  The g= rafical mixture moniter, works and displays most of the time at lower manif= old settings, but the higher the setting, the less it displays.  At 19= inches, it only displays about 5% of the time. Kind of hard to s= et things if I have no feedback.  Even stuck in a new O2 sensor t= o no avail.   I can't run it long at these power levels, as I= quickly get to 210 degrees. My suspicion is there is a root cause of all t= his EM-2 erratic displaey stuff.  My very uneducated guess is that ele= ctical noise is causing all these problems.  Your thoughts??  Sol= utions?
To add more problems, at high temps, I= heard a squeel, then it stopped.  Then it happened again.  I did= n't know what it was, so shut down.  Couldn't get it restarted= .  Pumps sounded funny and no fuel pressure.  Seems pumps over he= ated and cavitated as 5 minuets later, they started working.  They are= shielded and with a cool tube blowing on them. Apparently not enough. = ; Your suggestions are very appreciated.  Tracy???  Oh, yeah.&nbs= p; If I disconnect the secondary injectors, it won't buck.
 
Don Walker
Frustrated RV-8 renesis builder=
 
Now I'm e-mailing the Dynon list t= o find out why it won't display GPS data

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