X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2734139 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:52:07 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([75.191.190.141]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080218015127.YLNR16911.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:51:27 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c871d0$d3831aa0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] staging Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:51:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C871A6.EA7B0620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C871A6.EA7B0620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hang in there, Don Most of us have experience similar frustration - if with perhaps = different problems. Here is one thing I can think of. You stated it does not buck with the = secondary injectors disconnected. Do you have the injector disable = switches installed? When you say disconnect - I presume you mean unplug = the electrical connectors - or is turning off power to the secondary = with the disable switch??=20 In any case, here is what I would do, I would disconnect the = electrical connection to the primary injectors - pull the electrical = connector off the primary and plug them into the secondary injectors. = Turn the secondary disable switch off. IF the engine runs fine with the = secondary now then you have shown that the problem is not the = secondary injectors. If it still bucks then you could have a bad = injector. I used to have a bad stumble when the secondary injectors were turned on = by the EC2. I had though it was too rich as well, but when I finally = hooked my EFSIM monitor and could see the air/fuel ratio indictor as = well as the bars of the fuel map. I found out it was going too lean, = enriching (increasing height of fuel map bars) eliminated the stumble. = I don't have an EM2 so can't help you with why it is intermittent in = displaying pressure. But, try switching injectors wires and if you do disconnect (as = opposed to disabling with the disable switch) remember that the EC2 has = no way of knowing the two you disconnected are no longer connected. So = you need to place the disable switch to off(ground) for whichever set of = injectors you don't want operating for the test. Otherwise, the EC2 = will still assume all 4 injectors are ready to fire and it will reduce = the pulse width to the injectors by 1/2 when it goes from two to four = injectors. If only 2 injectors are connected then you will only be 1/2 = the fuel to the engine that it needs. By using the disable switch to = turn off one of the pair, the EC2 will automatically double the Pulse = width to the two remaining injectors.=20 So if you are only using two injectors with one pair disconnected, you = should turn the disable switch to off for the disconnected pair. Hopefully someone else can provide more helpful suggestion Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Don Wallker=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] staging The list has been a little quiet lately, so here goes. I'm the guy = who couldn't get his Renesis going. Turns out a capacitor was missing = for the EC-2. Then it would only start on a rare occation. Turns out = it needed a 1000 ohm resistor across the CAS line as noise was changing = the timing. Now, Stageing is difficult. Auto tune isn't really working = and I have resolved that I will do it manually. It kind of works, but = takes a long time and it's easier to just do it manually. My suspicion = is that the manifold pressure is not holding steady enough, but now I am = not so sure. I even added 2 ports near the throttle body, but it is = still erratic. Even teed them together with the back ports. Now back = to staging. =20 I get up to 19 inches, the staging * turns off and the engine start = bucking. Tryed mode 6, setting for larger injectors (I am running stock = renesis 295 primaries and 610 secondaries) Still bucks. Tried mode 6 = turning down flow rate. At about 20 inches I was able to get it to even = out, but it still bucks at 19, 19.5 and it bucks so bad that I can't get = it to 21. I assume it is flooding as I was able to get it to run at 20 = inches, but can't get it to change at any other setting. The EM-2 is = erratic. The grafical mixture moniter, works and displays most of the = time at lower manifold settings, but the higher the setting, the less it = displays. At 19 inches, it only displays about 5% of the time. Kind of = hard to set things if I have no feedback. Even stuck in a new O2 sensor = to no avail. I can't run it long at these power levels, as I quickly = get to 210 degrees. My suspicion is there is a root cause of all this = EM-2 erratic displaey stuff. My very uneducated guess is that electical = noise is causing all these problems. Your thoughts?? Solutions? To add more problems, at high temps, I heard a squeel, then it = stopped. Then it happened again. I didn't know what it was, so shut = down. Couldn't get it restarted. Pumps sounded funny and no fuel = pressure. Seems pumps over heated and cavitated as 5 minuets later, = they started working. They are shielded and with a cool tube blowing on = them. Apparently not enough. Your suggestions are very appreciated. = Tracy??? Oh, yeah. If I disconnect the secondary injectors, it won't = buck. Don Walker Frustrated RV-8 renesis builder Now I'm e-mailing the Dynon list to find out why it won't display GPS = data ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C871A6.EA7B0620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hang in there, Don
 
Most of us have experience similar frustration - = if with=20 perhaps different problems.
 
Here is one thing I can think of.  You = stated it does=20 not buck with the secondary injectors disconnected.  Do you have = the=20 injector disable switches installed?  When you say disconnect = - I=20 presume you mean unplug the electrical connectors - or is turning off = power to=20 the secondary with the disable switch?? 
 
  In any case, here is what I would do, I = would=20 disconnect the electrical connection to the primary injectors - pull the = electrical connector off the primary and plug them into the secondary=20 injectors.  Turn the secondary disable switch off.  IF the = engine runs=20 fine with the secondary now  then you have shown that the = problem  is=20 not the secondary injectors.  If it still bucks then you could have = a bad=20 injector.
 
I used to have a bad stumble when the secondary = injectors=20 were turned on by the EC2.  I had though it was too rich as well, = but when=20 I finally hooked my EFSIM monitor and could see the air/fuel ratio = indictor as=20 well as the bars of the fuel map.  I found out it was going too = lean,=20 enriching (increasing height of fuel map bars) eliminated the=20 stumble.  
 
I don't have an EM2 so can't help you with why = it is=20 intermittent in displaying pressure.
 
  But, try switching injectors wires and if = you do=20 disconnect (as opposed to disabling with the disable switch) remember = that the=20 EC2 has no way of knowing the two you disconnected are no longer=20 connected.  So you need to place the disable switch to off(ground) = for=20 whichever set of injectors you don't want operating for the test. =20 Otherwise, the EC2 will still assume all 4 injectors are ready to fire = and it=20 will reduce the pulse width to the injectors by 1/2 when it goes from = two to=20 four injectors.  If only 2 injectors are connected then you will = only be=20 1/2 the fuel to the engine that it needs.  By using the disable = switch to=20 turn off one of the pair, the EC2 will automatically double the Pulse = width to=20 the two remaining injectors.
 
So if you are only using two injectors with one = pair=20 disconnected, you should turn the disable switch to off for the = disconnected=20 pair.
 
Hopefully someone else can provide more helpful=20 suggestion
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Don = Wallker=20
Sent: Thursday, February 28, = 2008 8:23=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = staging

The list has been a little quiet = lately, so here=20 goes.  I'm the guy who couldn't get his Renesis going. Turns out = a=20 capacitor was missing for the EC-2.  Then it would only start on = a rare=20 occation.  Turns out it needed a 1000 ohm resistor across the CAS = line as=20 noise was changing the timing.  Now, Stageing is difficult.  = Auto=20 tune isn't really working and I have resolved that I will do it=20 manually.  It kind of works, but takes a long time and it's = easier to=20 just do it manually.  My suspicion is that the manifold pressure = is not=20 holding steady enough, but now I am not so sure.  I even added 2 = ports=20 near the throttle body, but it is still erratic.  Even teed them = together=20 with the back ports.  Now back to staging. 
I get up to 19 inches, the = staging * turns=20 off and the engine start bucking.  Tryed mode 6, setting for = larger=20 injectors (I am running stock renesis 295 primaries and 610 = secondaries) =20 Still bucks.  Tried mode 6 turning down flow rate.  At about = 20=20 inches I was able to get it to even out, but it still bucks at 19, = 19.5 and it=20 bucks so bad that I can't get it to 21.  I assume it is flooding = as I was=20 able to get it to run at 20 inches, but can't get it to change at any = other=20 setting.  The EM-2 is erratic.  The grafical mixture = moniter, works=20 and displays most of the time at lower manifold settings, but the = higher the=20 setting, the less it displays.  At 19 inches, it only displays = about 5%=20 of the time. Kind of hard to set things if I have no = feedback. =20 Even stuck in a new O2 sensor to no avail.   I can't = run it=20 long at these power levels, as I quickly get to 210 degrees. My = suspicion is=20 there is a root cause of all this EM-2 erratic displaey stuff.  = My very=20 uneducated guess is that electical noise is causing all these = problems. =20 Your thoughts??  Solutions?
To add more problems, at high temps, = I heard a=20 squeel, then it stopped.  Then it happened again.  I didn't = know=20 what it was, so shut down.  Couldn't get it restarted.  = Pumps=20 sounded funny and no fuel pressure.  Seems pumps over heated and=20 cavitated as 5 minuets later, they started working.  They are = shielded=20 and with a cool tube blowing on them. Apparently not enough.  = Your=20 suggestions are very appreciated.  Tracy???  Oh, yeah.  = If I=20 disconnect the secondary injectors, it won't buck.
 
Don Walker
Frustrated RV-8 renesis = builder
 
Now I'm e-mailing the Dynon list to = find out why=20 it won't display GPS data
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