X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.170.184] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2729788 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.170.184; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id e13so685044rng.4 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:11:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=/6X455mdxk+92W0/VX733uHyPtFmz5kmt01QbwTgyec=; b=WiAuN6yAR2VkOPif4rJkUXPT5rscHz2qafP9gLlAAln92CPH7o7FaF2mOUZSL12HJY3dEE8iGYjM6kwdQUPeJRSqS1iLbJhbJXQ+/SmUx76UIQb5Y7Ef9zDJhXXwvDVRRtgK1+iPkgX06KMF8zREO/RybTzokxbv2LFFu4E3NPw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=NtzPQCfZxMg5xRxB5YxZZ7WYjyg3Q9cey1AIshdhXE9V4VFxPblIpSVs1tGsS0Mad+c8Lt+gzXsX7sc+om+2v3bpLj6qxmGFOcAPhIu/Ej1MqpqNx/Ss3HcvSGAcI0iEHZ+hsFlsP+JfI7aiH5PwfItLJn5M4b/H6jOmovQsz40= Received: by 10.142.77.11 with SMTP id z11mr1373425wfa.23.1203008645428; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:04:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.125.5 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:04:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0802140904qda2ebd3rb6a223e6267a4af5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:04:05 -0500 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3008_14413644.1203008645411" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 66dbed4adc2eb84e ------=_Part_3008_14413644.1203008645411 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Assuming there are nice bellmouth entries on those runners, that's a real nice looking intake Bob. Wish I hadn't already built my own ! Tracy On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 3:22 PM, wrote: > View full size > > View > full size > > > If anyone is interested I think my manifold engineer would build another > one. Intake or exhaust. Not particularly cheap. I have a machup 20B he can > use for a template. I also have a local machinest that built me my aluminumn > intake manifold plate. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:39 pm > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn > > Greg, > Please keep us informed about the manifold maker. I need one for my 20B > also. > BD-4 with 20B. > Robert > Robert Bollinger > FM1099 MUM > Fairfield, IA 52557 > rob@mum.edu > Home (641)472-7000ex2068 > Cell (641)919-3213 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Greg Ward > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, February 11, 2008 10:51 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn > > Tracy Says the drive will handle 400 HP at take-off, and I won't be using > the stock turbos. I'm being told that the TO4 that John Slade is using is > under-sized for the 20B, so I am researching what the next step up is. > There is also a guy in LA that builds manifolds that are supposedly > immaculate, and inexpensive, we'll see. I think limiting it to 6000 rpm > makes total sense. Anyhow, heading to the shop for a grinding session, have > a great day!! > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* wrjjrs@aol.com > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, February 11, 2008 8:43 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn > > Ernest, The 20B will easily hold up to 400 HP. The real question is will > the Redrive? The only source for a drive that is designed to handle that > type of power is the Mistral planetary. They are turboing the 20B engine to > 360 HP for certification. If Greg uses 400 for short periods he should be > fine, If he has an adaquate drive. > Bill Jepson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ernest Christley > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:08 am > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn > > Greg Ward wrote: > > > > O.K., time to throw a little F matter into the fan. I am sitting in my > new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, and a relatively new 20B "D" series on a > palette. I got the engine complete with everything it had in the Cosmo that > it came out of. There isn't even a coat of grease on this thing. Radiator, > oil cooler, air conditioner, condenser, ECU, injectors, coils, motor mounts, > and about 100 pounds of extra stuff came with it. My buddy (he has been > selling engines for 15 years) in LA that sold me this engine ($4500.00) is > in constant contact with people who race this motor, and I am getting a lot > of input on how to set this thing up. I have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and > plan on generating 400 HP on take -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My max > rpm will be 8000. You have no idea how much input I am getting from the > racing set. They are saying that with a variable boost (electronic) > controller, I can vary the boost at any given altitude, as much or as little > as I want, and tweak this thing for max performance. They can't believe that > I am asking so little from this engine. > > > > This will get us started; > > Greg > > Greg, I don't want to rain on your parade, but there are three questions > you have to ask yourself: > > - Can I reliably pull that many horses out of the motor for hours on end? > - Can I carry enough fuel to support pulling that many horses for hours on > end? > - Can I keep the engine from melting while pull that many horses out of > it? > > It's been demonstrated on this list several times that not everything from > racing translates directly to airplanes. For instance, 400Hp will require > twice the radiator volume that most of us are using, along with the larger > associated ducting and cooling drag. Will the reduction in reliability and > increased fuel burn be paid for by the extra speed once the effects of the > extra weight and cooling drag are factored in? ie, you will go faster, just > not as much as "double the Hp" would imply, because of the cooling drag. I > don't think most racers have to worry about that to much, but you could > wind-up with a system that just cost you more to go to only relatively close > places faster. > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > ------------------------------ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > ! > > ------=_Part_3008_14413644.1203008645411 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Assuming there are nice bellmouth entries on those runners, that's= a real nice looking intake Bob.  Wish I hadn't already built my o= wn !
 
Tracy 

On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 3:22 PM, <bmears9413@aol.com> wrote:
=20
View full size
<= a style=3D"DISPLAY: block; WIDTH: 285px; TEXT-DECORATION: none" href=3D"htt= p://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do?pid=3D61d02aXTCR5yur4QxYbO0Qm8V-yOMq= mQPNhGv4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D" target=3D"_blank">=20
View full size
<= /div>
If anyone is interested I think my manifold enginee= r would build another one. Intake or exhaust. Not particularly cheap. I hav= e a machup 20B he can use for a template. I also have a local machinest tha= t built me my aluminumn intake manifold plate.=20




-----Original Message-----
From: R= ob <rob@mum.edu>=
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:39 pm
Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: Fuel burn

Greg,
Please keep us informed about the mani= fold maker. I need one for my 20B also.
BD-4 with 20B.
Robert
Robert Bollinger
FM1099 MUM
Fairfield, IA 52557
rob@mum.edu 
Home (641)472= -7000ex2068
Cell     (641)919-3213
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Ward
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:5= 1 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn

Tracy Says the drive will handle 400 HP at take-o= ff, and I won't be using the stock turbos.  I'm being told tha= t the TO4 that John Slade is using is under-sized for the 20B, so I am rese= arching what the next step up is.  There is also a guy in LA that buil= ds manifolds that are supposedly immaculate, and inexpensive, we'll see= .  I think limiting it to 6000 rpm makes total sense.  Anyhow, he= ading to the shop for a grinding session, have a great day!!
Greg
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 8:43= AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn

Ernest, The 20B will easily hold up to 400 HP. The real ques= tion is will the Redrive? The only source for a drive that is designed= to handle that type of power is the Mistral planetary. They are turboing t= he 20B engine to 360 HP for certification. If Greg uses 400 for short = periods he should be fine, If he has an adaquate drive.
Bill Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Christley= <echristley@n= c.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:08 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn
Greg Ward wrote:&nbs= p;
> 
> O.K., time to throw a little F matter into the fan= . I am sitting in my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, and a relatively n= ew 20B "D" series on a palette. I got the engine complete with ev= erything it had in the Cosmo that it came out of. There isn't even a co= at of grease on this thing. Radiator, oil cooler, air conditioner, condense= r, ECU, injectors, coils, motor mounts, and about 100 pounds of extra stuff= came with it. My buddy (he has been selling engines for 15 years) in LA th= at sold me this engine ($4500.00) is in constant contact with people who ra= ce this motor, and I am getting a lot of input on how to set this thing up.= I have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and plan on generating 400 HP on ta= ke -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My max rpm will be 8000. You have no i= dea how much input I am getting from the racing set. They are saying that w= ith a variable boost (electronic) controller, I can vary the boost at any g= iven altitude, as much or as little as I want, and tweak this thing for max= performance. They can't believe that I am asking so little from this e= ngine. 
> 
> This will get us started; 
> Greg 
&g= t; Greg, I don't want to rain on your parade, but there are three quest= ions you have to ask yourself: 
 
- Can I reliably pull tha= t many horses out of the motor for hours on end? 
- Can I carry enough fuel to support pulling that many horses for hours on = end? 
- Can I keep the engine from melting while pull that many hor= ses out of it? 
 
It's been demonstrated on this list s= everal times that not everything from racing translates directly to airplan= es. For instance, 400Hp will require twice the radiator volume that most of= us are using, along with the larger associated ducting and cooling drag. W= ill the reduction in reliability and increased fuel burn be paid for by the= extra speed once the effects of the extra weight and cooling drag are fact= ored in? ie, you will go faster, just not as much as "double the Hp&qu= ot; would imply, because of the cooling drag. I don't think most racers= have to worry about that to much, but you could wind-up with a system that= just cost you more to go to only relatively close places faster. 
 
-- 
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ 
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html&= nbsp;
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!

------=_Part_3008_14413644.1203008645411--