X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.186] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2504253 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:21:39 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.198.186; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c27so340817rvf for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:21:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=tIytoHdQiLejTTYwCLRURBTSRElvUn71eJVAYGLeS6U=; b=ofahLoMyPOo9eFABR5nkrS6RCkrwLKdayAucwx9Jy+EnFJdVKbyh1+/SvCI4KVHax3otkZNmpxR3B5ORJ/80kLEODUKlNTeerm2SbwII02NIKv3B2u4L5mHTOG2cSLKTzCyx6Y+egRci3Jb5mIOZIR1FezCxkFWyY3r/j6mzH1c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=ckhEK5aji6ApuRcgBpjumL6N7+qSgfwnWihZ3sS9El+KAhwD7jCyO+NRheVpL048ooM0jrMIiYntmwv6mczGORXyNyORCnRkF72BwfXaKHbN6yDtt4YMbGEqatUCN5h/ynnyzxb6/lTxjEsMiwnrtm+65IvxXnypD/xWq2UZctY= Received: by 10.142.14.20 with SMTP id 20mr141584wfn.1196007662537; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.36.20 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:21:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0711250821saa5ba7v7fe3547e85dca652@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:21:02 -0500 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: what are they In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13109_6366583.1196007662495" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 85034d97d4eaa7ee ------=_Part_13109_6366583.1196007662495 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I don't think you guys are actually reading the NACA paper about these rads. The flat plate rads in the paper have NO FINS at all and do not have multiple layers of flat tubes, only a continuous flat tube from front to back (as much as 20" !!! ) with NO FINS on the tubes. I have only seen this type of rad in a museum so I'm not surprised that people are a bit confused about this. That is why I said this study is not applicable to our installations. Ed K. may be correct that a similar core might be used inside water to oil coolers. Tracy On Nov 25, 2007 2:42 AM, Ron Springer wrote: > I am just a radiator novice, but all radiators that I > have any experience with have had straight passages > from front to back between fins. When that is the > case, most books and reports use flat plate drag > equations to determine the skin friction and heat > transfer as a first cut. Now if a flat plate radiator > is a radiator where flat plate drag equations can be > used, then I guess I haven't seen a radiator that > isn't one. > > Actually, I take that back. The A/C condenser on my > car has taken so many rock hits that the leading edge > of many of the fins are badly bent. I guess some new > equations will be needed! > > Ron > > > --- Ed Klepeis wrote: > > > Dear Tracy > > I'm with you what are these special flat > > plate rads. I have built many systems but haven't > > come across these flat plate rads. I will stand > > corrected if someone comes up with something. I > > think what everyone is talking about is a flat plate > > cooler that is put in the bottom tank on rads to > > cool trans fluid. I think fluidyne is using them as > > oil to water oil coolers. I looked into that but > > didn't like the sealing system they used around the > > oil inlet/outlet good enough for cars but not safe > > for aircraft. If anyone has anything to add to this > > I would be happy to hear about it. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Ed Klepeis > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > ------=_Part_13109_6366583.1196007662495 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
I don't think you guys are actually reading the NACA paper about these rads.
 
  The flat plate rads in the paper have NO FINS at all and do not have multiple layers of flat tubes, only a continuous flat tube from front to back (as much as 20" !!! ) with NO FINS on the tubes.  I have only seen this type of rad in a museum so I'm not surprised that people are a bit confused about this.  That is why I said this study is not applicable to our installations. 
 
Ed K.  may be correct that a similar core might be used inside water to oil coolers.
 
Tracy

On Nov 25, 2007 2:42 AM, Ron Springer <ron2369@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I am just a radiator novice, but all radiators that I
have any experience with have had straight passages
from front to back between fins. When that is the
case, most books and reports use flat plate drag
equations to determine the skin friction and heat
transfer as a first cut. Now if a flat plate radiator
is a radiator where flat plate drag equations can be
used, then I guess I haven't seen a radiator that
isn't one.

Actually, I take that back. The A/C condenser on my
car has taken so many rock hits that the leading edge
of many of the fins are badly bent. I guess some new
equations will be needed!

Ron


--- Ed Klepeis <techwelding@comcast.net> wrote:

> Dear Tracy
>         I'm with you what are these special flat
> plate rads. I have built many systems but haven't
> come across these flat plate rads. I will stand
> corrected if someone comes up with something. I
> think what everyone is talking about is a flat plate
> cooler that is put in the bottom tank on rads to
> cool trans fluid. I think fluidyne is using them as
> oil to water oil coolers. I looked into that but
> didn't like the sealing system they used around the
> oil inlet/outlet good enough for cars but not safe
> for aircraft. If anyone has anything to add to this
> I would be happy to hear about it.
>
>
>             Regards
>
>
>         Ed Klepeis


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