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From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-2501956@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Hard Starting
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:23:29 -0500
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Yes, Steve, I would think pulling a CB for the injectors should disable a 
set, so you might try that.

The mode 1 Injector simulation goes like this.

Turn off power to your pumps, turn on power to you EC2 and injectors.  Turn 
you mode switch to mode 1 and push the program store button. The EC2 will 
generate pulses to the injectors equivalent to the engine running at around 
4000 rpm.  You can definitely hear the injectors clicking away madly (that's 
the reason you want the fuel pumps off or you will truly flood the engine - 
don't ask me how I know)
You get out the simulation mode by switching to a different mode or turning 
off the power to the EC2.

Similarly with the ignition testing.  Turn your mode selector to mode 8 and 
press the program store button.  It should trigger both ignition modules 
until turned off.

One thing to be careful of is when using the ignition simulation, it is 
possible to fire off any combustible mixture you might have in the chamber. 
I have notice the engine fire and the blade swing - so if you had a lot of 
fuel in your intake manifold (after say flooding the engine) it might be 
theoretically possible for the engine to fire and suck in sufficient fuel to 
turn the blades over several times.  So as always treat a prop like its 
running (even when it isn't {:>))

The safer way would be to test your ignition BEFORE you test your injectors.

These simulation modes only work when the engine is NOT running.

Yes, hard to tell about compression without an expensive Mazda Shop tester. 
But, I have noticed that if there is a compression problem you will normally 
see things bouncing around the same.  If you notice some differences 
(especially between the rotors) by the needle swing - it could indicate a 
problem.

Hope some of this helps you get to the root of the problem.  I agree with Al 
and Bob, the turbo will have no effect on your start up.  Now if ran too 
much boost that could possibly damage seals and therefore lower compression, 
but I know you are very conservative about boost.


ED
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Brooks" <cozy4pilot@gmail.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hard Starting


> Hi Ed,
> Some very good tips.  Unfortunately I did not install the injector 
> switches.
> I viewed that as another failure point.  I did wire my injector power on
> separate breakers though, so there may be an option there.
>
> Compression seems to be good, with even pops as I rotate through the prop.
> I'm not sure about the reading though.  My compression gauge doesn't seem 
> to
> be working correctly as far as holding the peak compression.   Watching 
> the
> needle bounce looks consistent on each pulse, but since all of my 
> historical
> data was on peak hold, it doesn't tell me much.  The little needle valve
> seems to be the issue.  I tried replacing it with on from AutoZone, but it
> was destroyed on the first test.
>
> On the injector test, and ignition test, I'm not sure that I have those
> features, or if I do, I'm not sure how to get in the test mode.  I take
> another look at my manual, but I know that the software had been updated
> since I bought the EC2.  About 18 months ago, I believe.
>
> Regards,
> Steve Brooks
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
> Behalf Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:12 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hard Starting
>
>
> Steve, the first thing I would do is:
>
> 1.  Check that the EC2 injector simulation mode (mode1) is firing all the
> injectors
> 2.  Check that the EC2 Ignition Simulation mode (mode8) is firing all the
> plugs
>
> I don't know if this could possibly be the case with you, but since you 
> were
> doing some electrical work, I'll suggest it anyway.
>
> Turn off one set of your injectors and try the mixture control.  If you 
> find
> the mixture control is not acting as before, the system could be in "cold
> start" mode.  I damaged the EC2 once by trying to plug in an electrical
> device to interface with the EC2.  The engine would run on all four
> injectors (and then poorly at low rpm) if I turned the mixture max lean
> (CCW), however, it seem to function properly with one pair of injectors
> turned off.
>
> Later Tracy discovered that I had fried the B controller and had caused 
> the
> A controller to go into "cold start" mode.  That caused too much fuel flow
> with 4 injectors, but when I cut out one pair, then the mixture controlled
> exercised its normal control
>
> So you might just turn off one pair and see (I'd recommend turning off 
> your
> secondary).
>
> If that does not seem to help, I think the next thing I would check is the
> compression of my rotors. If for some reason you have some faces with low
> compression, that can hinder starting.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Ed
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Brooks" <cozy4pilot@gmail.com>
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 8:39 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Hard Starting
>
>
>>I have an issue all of the sudden with my 13B Turbo not wanting to start.
>> It will fire occasionally, but just won't start running.
>> If I am persistent enough (and have enough battery), It will finally
>> start,
>> but does not run well. Seems to have a miss in it.  It runs better if I
>> turn
>> the mixture to lean, in fact, I can turn the mixture all the way counter
>> clock wise.  I think that it used to die when I would do that.  When I
>> switch to controller B, it runs better for a few seconds, and then goes
>> back
>> to missing.  It doesn't start any easier on controller B either.
>>
>> I haven't done a lot of troubleshooting on it yet, but wondered if anyone
>> has had a similar issue. I did replace the spark plugs, but that didn't
>> seem
>> to help any.  I still have the stock turbo on it, so, maybe the turbo is
>> starting to go.  It also started this problem, after I fixed a problem
>> with
>> the starter.  My Cessna ignition switch got some water in it and it got 
>> to
>> where it wouldn't engage the starter.  I took it apart, and cleaned all 
>> of
>> the contacts to fix it.  I have that switch also wired to do the coil 
>> test
>> when you select mag1 or mag2 on the switch.  The coil test only works on
>> controller B though, so I don't think that would affect controller A.
>>
>> I guess that maybe my next step is to verify that I'm getting spark on 
>> all
>> plugs, and then maybe try removing the plumbing to the throttle body, and
>> try starting it then.  That should verify if my turbo is failing, and
>> restricting air flow.
>>
>> Steve Brooks
>> Cozy MKIV 13B Turbo
>>
>>
>
>
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