X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2500714 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:27:40 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20071122142701.OEVV19167.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:27:01 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c82d14$1a512320$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: [Bulk] 16x Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:29:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Lets see, Mark, that rebuilt was in 05 down in Louisiana. I fly around 50 hours a year so, I've probably put around 100 hours on the rebuilt engine. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: [Bulk] 16x > Ed, > How many flight hours does your engine have on it since last rebuild? > > Mark > > On Nov 22, 2007 5:45 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: >> Thanks, George, that in indeed interesting information. Long throw >> should >> mean more torque. Be interesting to see how they have improved the >> sealing. >> Two years more development then all the production (assuming they go >> forward >> with it), so I should expect to see it for at least 5 years. Well, >> hopefully the old 13B will hold out for that long. >> >> Ed >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "George Lendich" >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:51 AM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Fw: [Bulk] 16x >> >> >> > >> > >> >> Ed, Lynn and Bill + >> >> >> >> This was posted to me privately and may help to clarify the >> >> specifications of the 16x. Some of the info are estimations by Rolf >> >> Pfeiffer ex - NSU engineer. >> >> >> >>> Hello George >> >>> Nice to hear from you. Here is my assessment: >> >> >> >> Also info supplied by Don Sherman as follows:- >> >> >> >> I interviewed Seiji Tashima, the engineering expert for Mazda's new >> >> rotary, at Tokyo on your behalf. Here are a few details he revealed: >> >> Rotor width reduced by 5mm saves weight, improves apex seal >> >> performance >> >> trochoid is 25mm wider, 35mm taller for more displacement and torque >> >> would not reveal increase in eccentricity. New displacement is >> >> 800cc/rotor. >> >> >> >> Aluminum end plates have plasma-sprayed wear surface direct and >> >> indirect >> >> fuel injection. >> >> >> >> Torque gains come from longer e-dimension, more displacement, and >> >> direct >> >> injection. >> >> >> >> He would not confirm 300 hp power goal. >> >> All the gas seals are improved, with smaller flame holes adjacent to >> >> spark plugs. >> >> The 16x engine ran for the first time this year, full development will >> >> be >> >> at least 2 more years. >> >> >> >> Engine weight is reduced from 125kg [275 pounds] to 100 kg [220 >> >> pounds]. >> >> >> >> Assessment by Rolf Pfeiffer as follows:- >> >> >> >>> /Now, using above dimensions we get the following: >> >>> >> >>> 25 mm wider means the short axis goes from 180 to 205 mm. >> >>> 35 mm taller means the long axis goes from 240 to 275 mm. >> >>> >> >>> This results in E = 17.5 mm, and R = 120 mm. >> >>> The old dimensions were E = 15 mm and R = 105 (including the radius >> >>> of 3 >> >>> mm for the apex seals). >> >>> The ratio R/E is 6.857, down from 7.0. >> >>> >> >>> The ratio of stroke to piston area becomes higher which is what they >> >>> want, I suppose. >> >>> The RX7/8's were 0.33 S/D, above numbers would be 0.3764, a >> >>> substantial >> >>> 14% improvement in ratio of stroke to equivalent piston diameter. A >> >>> long >> >>> stroke engine, so to speak. >> >>> >> >>> I also had stated that: >> >>> NSU also went that direction with their latest developments before >> >>> folding. >> >>> We are lucky that Mazda has the financial means and does carry on. >> >>> >> >>> The last big NSU unit EA 871 was approximately like this: >> >>> (Calculating >> >>> back from its displacement and width. I had already left by then, so >> >>> the >> >>> info is calculated.) >> >>> E = 17.28, R = 120.5, width = 69 (given), displacement = 746.6 cc >> >>> (given). >> >>> This is very close to what Mazda seems to be doing now, if above >> >>> numbers >> >>> are right. >> >>> NSU had great hopes in that engine. It was used in a German >> >>> fan-liner. >> >>> It was the high point of the Wankel development at NSU. >> >>> Then the money did run out. NSU was merged with AUDI, and VW the >> >>> parent, >> >>> killed it all. All further development was stopped. >> >>> >> >>> Fan Trainer: >> >>> http://www.der-wankelmotor.de/Flugzeuge/RFB/rfb.html#Fanliner >> >>> >> >>> Regards >> >>> Rolf >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> George Lendich wrote: >> >>>> Rolf, >> >>>> Could you give me your assessment of the new 16X eccentric. If I >> >>>> remember correctly you gave you assessment on Paul's site. There is >> >>>> discussion on another site and I would like to pass it on to >> >>>> interested >> >>>> parties. >> >>>> Also if my memory serves me right, you mentioned a manufacturer was >> >>>> working on a similar size ( change in eccentric) and what company >> >>>> that >> >>>> was. >> >>>> Am I wrong to believe it was the company you were working with at >> >>>> the >> >>>> time? >> >>>> George Lendich >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: >> > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >