X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com ([205.188.144.208] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2496108 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:24:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.144.208; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.d1c.187cc962 (45781) for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:23:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-d12 (mblk-d12.mblk.aol.com [205.188.149.4]) by ciaaol-m01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM015-b2d54741c696108; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:23:34 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 16X Rotary Engine. Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:23:34 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wrjjrs@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8C9F8E80C111980_960_13CA_mblk-d12.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 31361-STANDARD Received: from 65.161.241.3 by mblk-d12.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.4) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:23:24 -0500 Message-Id: <8C9F8E80C111980-960-9C7@mblk-d12.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 205.188.149.4 X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MB_8C9F8E80C111980_960_13CA_mblk-d12.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bobby, For gasoline?N/A direct injection requires around 18K psi. Diesels use as high as 22K psi. While this sounds scary, the equipment has been around for years and has proven reliability. Bill Jepson? -----Original Message----- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 7:51 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 16X Rotary Engine. What kind of fuel pressure does direct injection require? ? Bobby From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:33 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 16X Rotary Engine. I know you're kidding, (you know how much time it takes to come up with a new design & put it into production) but here's the other reasons for not doing a 3.5 : 1 gear drive.? ? ?I would agree with the estimate but?I don't think it?makes sense in aircraft use.? Not that I'm against the HP, it's the BSFC that bothers me.? The rotary gets the best BSFC around 5000 - 5500 rpm.?? Go higher and it gets worse which is OK for short periods (climb, racing, etc) but if you are going to really spend serious hours in the air, you want the engine running near the sweet spot of BSFC.? With a fixed pitch prop, this limits us to around 7250 for top end and still cruise around 5400 - 5600 rpm.? A CS prop really helps here but that sort of thing is out of economic reach for most of us.? Even if you had the 3.5 : 1 gear drive, the design of the prop gets really funky.?If you ask MT or anyone else for a prop that works best at 1500 rpm (cruise setting with engine near 5000) they won't have it.? ? The 16B plays right into our hands.? If we are limited on rpm (7250 is not?TOO limiting : ), there is no substitute for cubic inches?and lower weight.?Even with?the 7250 limit, that comes out to ~ 280 HP.? Not bad for a 150lb (bare block) engine! ? Tracy On Nov 19, 2007 7:00 AM, Bob Tilley wrote: OK Tracy, I think 340 HP at 9,000 is an accurate estimate. When do we get the 3.25 or 3.5:1 ratio PSRU? ?;-) Bob 1600CC. Kind of ends the talk about direct injection. Still looks like a 6 port but the primary ports (the small ones in the center iron) are much bigger. With a combined end port as on Paul Yaws site, and maybe a mild bridge port, I think 340 HP at 9,000 is an accurate estimate. ? Maybe 250 HP at 6,500. Going to need three blades and 74 inches of prop. ? Where do I sign up? ? Lynn E. Hanover? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ----------MB_8C9F8E80C111980_960_13CA_mblk-d12.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Bobby,
For gasoline N/A direct injection requires around 18K psi. Diesels use as high as 22K psi.
While this sounds scary, the equipment has been around for years and has proven reliability.
Bill Jepson 


-----Original Message-----
From: Bobby J. Hughes <bhughes@qnsi.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 7:51 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 16X Rotary Engine.

What kind of fuel pressure does direct injection require?
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:33 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 16X Rotary Engine.

I know you're kidding, (you know how much time it takes to come up with a new design & put it into production) but here's the other reasons for not doing a 3.5 : 1 gear drive. 
 
 I would agree with the estimate but I don't think it makes sense in aircraft use.  Not that I'm against the HP, it's the BSFC that bothers me.  The rotary gets the best BSFC around 5000 - 5500 rpm.   Go higher and it gets worse which is OK for short periods (climb, racing, etc) but if you are going to really spend serious hours in the air, you want the engine running near the sweet spot of BSFC.  With a fixed pitch prop, this limits us to around 7250 for top end and still cruise around 5400 - 5600 rpm.  A CS prop really helps here but that sort of thing is out of economic reach for most of us.  Even if you had the 3.5 : 1 gear drive, the design of the prop gets really funky. If you ask MT or anyone else for a prop that works best at 1500 rpm (cruise setting with engine near 5000) they won't have it. 
 
The 16B plays right into our hands.  If we are limited on rpm (7250 is not TOO limiting : ), there is no substitute for cubic inches and lower weight. Even with the 7250 limit, that comes out to ~ 280 HP.  Not bad for a 150lb (bare block) engine!
 
Tracy

On Nov 19, 2007 7:00 AM, Bob Tilley <btilley@mchsi.com> wrote:
OK Tracy,

I think 340 HP at 9,000 is an accurate estimate.

When do we get the 3.25 or 3.5:1 ratio PSRU?  ;-)

Bob


1600CC. Kind of ends the talk about direct injection. Still looks like a 6 port but the primary ports (the small ones in the center iron) are much bigger. With a combined end port as on Paul Yaws site, and maybe a mild bridge port, I think 340 HP at 9,000 is an accurate estimate.
 
Maybe 250 HP at 6,500. Going to need three blades and 74 inches of prop.
 
Where do I sign up?
 
Lynn E. Hanover 



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