X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2458290 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:48:52 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20071106154814.IOTL5837.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 15:48:14 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c8208c$2c98f0b0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Carlos' theory on Nitros Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:46:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C82062.438BFA30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C82062.438BFA30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good observation, Bob. I believe the article accompanying the photo inferred the cause could = have been an electric blanket used to keep the bottle warm that may = have caused it to over pressure. Still impressive damage just from = compressed gas - I could imagine it blowing the lid off the trunk, but = this trashed the car and about took out the garage as well. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: bmears9413@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:36 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Carlos' theory on Nitros I would bet it was just a bottle explosion. doesnt look like there was = any fire. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Welter To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 9:11 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Carlos' theory on Nitros I have been flying for 1400 with nitrous and its the only way I can = get the coot out of the water, I use it for about a 5 second burst to = get it up on the step and may give a longer burst if I need to get out = of rough water or out a tight spot, also use it to get a heavy load out = of a short runway. Good explanation on wet and dry, I use the wet system made by NOS. Yes Bruce used it for the time to climb and also Pushy Galore used = it to set a altitude record of 32,000 ft with a 0-200, they used 10 lbs = at a rate of 1 lb per minute, actually made it to 34.000 ft but when the = nitrous ran out the plane stalled and he dropped to 32,00 ft to hold = level flight to set the record. As for that blown up trunk there is no way that nitrous did it alone = as its just an oxidizer and is no more dangerous than the oxygen bottle = next to you for breathing, I suspect he may have had a leaky gas can in = that trunk with it on a hot day and the blow off disk blew off and mixed = with the gas to cause the explosion. Ken The principle difference between dry and wet Nitrous injection is = that with the "wet" kind you injected additional fuel along with the = nitrous input into the air intake. So the manifold is "wet" with fuel. = With "dry" concept, you pour the nitrous oxide through the normal air = intake and increased the fuel through the normal fuel injectors by = extending injector PW during the Nox injection or turning on additional = injectors. Since with this approach the intake does not have fuel = squirted (except through the normal injector ports) the manifold remains = "dry. Variations abound but this is the basic conceptual difference = between the two. Some claim you need a mass flow sensor to do the = "Dry" approach, but that is not really correct, you just need some means = of sensing the onset of Nox flow and increasing the fuel flow to match.=20 I was interested, but after seeing what nitrous oxide can do (see = photo of auto that had a bottle in its trunk), I lost interest {:>) Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Carlos' theory on Nitros About the only thing I would consider it for is for a quick boost = on an amphib to get off the water or challenging Bruce Bohannon to a = climb contest. Carlos was explaining the difference between wet & dry nitrous = injection which I still don't feel like I understand well enough to = explain myself. I was trying to explain an idea I had for using the EC2 to deliver = the extra fuel required (via the EFI injectors) when injecting NOX = instead of using a separate gasoline injection port. Not sure I = explained it well enough for Carlos. It might not even be a good idea. = Goofs on laughing gas tend to be expensive. Tracy =20 On 11/5/07, Bob Tilley wrote: Tracy, I walked up on a conversation between you and Carlos. Ya'll were discussing Nitros in our applications. Can you give us a = synopsis of the conversation. I picked up just enough to tell he was not for = it. Please explain!!! Bob -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:explosionPic1[1].jpg = (JPEG/=C2=ABIC=C2=BB) (0011978E) -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C82062.438BFA30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Good observation, Bob.
 
I believe the article accompanying the photo = inferred the=20 cause could have been an electric blanket used to keep the bottle warm = that=20  may have caused it to over pressure.  Still impressive damage = just=20 from compressed gas - I could imagine it blowing the lid off the trunk, = but this=20 trashed the car and about took out the garage as well.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 bmears9413@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, = 2007 10:36=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Carlos' theory=20 on Nitros

I would bet it was just a bottle explosion. doesnt look = like=20 there was any fire.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken = Welter=20 <rotarycoot.ken@gmail.com>=
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Tue, 6 Nov 2007 9:11 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Carlos' theory on=20 Nitros

   I have been flying for 1400 = with nitrous=20 and its the only way I can get the coot out of the water, I use it for = about a=20 5 second burst to get it up on the step and may give a longer burst if = I need=20 to get out of rough water or out a tight spot, also use it to get a = heavy load=20 out of a short runway.

  Good explanation on wet and dry, I = use the wet=20 system made by NOS.

  Yes Bruce used it for the time to = climb and=20 also Pushy Galore used it to set a altitude record of 32,000 ft with a = 0-200,=20 they used 10 lbs at a rate of 1 lb per minute, actually made it to = 34.000 ft=20 but when the nitrous ran out the plane stalled and he dropped to 32,00 = ft to=20 hold level flight to set the record.

 As for that blown up trunk there is = no way that=20 nitrous did it alone as its just an oxidizer and is no more dangerous = than the=20 oxygen bottle next to you for breathing, I suspect he may have had a = leaky gas=20 can in that trunk with it on a hot day and the blow off disk blew off = and=20 mixed with the gas to cause the explosion.

  Ken
 







The principle difference = between=20 dry and wet Nitrous injection is that with the "wet" kind you = injected=20 additional fuel along with the nitrous input into the air = intake. So=20 the manifold is "wet" with fuel.    With "dry" = concept, you=20 pour the nitrous oxide through the normal air intake and increased = the fuel=20 through the normal fuel injectors by extending injector PW during = the Nox=20 injection or turning on additional injectors.  Since with this = approach=20 the intake does not have fuel squirted (except through the normal = injector=20 ports) the manifold remains "dry.
 
 Variations abound = but this is=20 the basic conceptual difference between the two.   Some = claim you=20 need a mass flow sensor to do the "Dry" approach, but that is not = really=20 correct, you just need some means of sensing the onset of Nox flow = and=20 increasing the fuel flow to match. 
 
I was interested, but = after seeing=20 what nitrous oxide can do (see photo of auto that had a bottle = in its=20 trunk), I lost interest {:>)
 
Ed
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tracy=20 Crook
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 8:32 = PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Carlos' theory on=20 Nitros

About the only thing I would consider it for is for a = quick=20 boost on an amphib to get off the water or challenging Bruce = Bohannon to a=20 climb contest.
 
Carlos was explaining the difference between wet &=20 dry nitrous injection which I still don't feel like I = understand well=20 enough to explain myself.
 
I was trying to explain an idea I had for using the EC2 = to=20 deliver the extra fuel required (via the EFI injectors) when=20 injecting NOX instead of using a separate gasoline injection = port. =20 Not sure I explained it well enough for Carlos.  It might not = even be=20 a good idea.  Goofs on laughing gas tend to be=20 expensive.
 
Tracy

 
On 11/5/07, Bob Tilley <btilley@mchsi.com> = wrote:
Tracy,

I walked up on a conversation between = you and=20 Carlos. Ya'll were
discussing Nitros in our applications. Can = you=20 give us a synopsis of
the conversation. I picked up just = enough to=20 tell he was not for it.
Please=20 explain!!!

Bob

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