X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2452876 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:09:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.146.182; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so1186774wah for ; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:09:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=keASxEkJ6Sg23wRJGzE+YIVrfB4s3T0ynVDNlfQY0+Q=; b=hHO4gr0AvBI0zABWmkSrHptTZ/aehndvIlWy1ZP+eE53jd3FqSlvNr7QyV+zYI+tMSl8FvbJByNreZpClmces+ChEB6xcg2LR9Y506L2S78jDdCK05+5sfwdyKgr3qlZbEEW+Nm1GLgtIY8qZqULpKBrq60VoDf6a3pKtJCcFic= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type; b=IoKGSF3/EtLHOHJ/8ln7rSnGvzS8XV06V+YDA3JtqP1UsKOkMU1Das8hV/sWULpngu4OO5ojrvIpVTaL8VsqwxP6Xob1QhcU23gqFibeAOhViDSCpnaTpT/iqL23s5DZ8OjzTVg5V+L/CaQWA1w/Anb7e6lrXm4soDR+l4l1KPM= Received: by 10.114.59.1 with SMTP id h1mr2379408waa.1194041343284; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?192.168.1.64? ( [154.20.242.102]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k24sm7224285waf.2007.11.02.15.09.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <472B9FDF.9030609@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:08:31 -0700 From: Todd Bartrim User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] cockpit sound References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070207030406000604000806" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070207030406000604000806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ernest; I have a few video clips I can send you that you can strip the sound off. But I'll have to get them for you tonight as I'm just heading out now. Ernest Christley wrote: > Does anyone have recording of the ambient noise of the rotary from > inside a closed cockpit? > > I want to add the sound to my Xplane model. I could also use a > recording of the engine starting. > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --------------070207030406000604000806 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------080107040709070300060100" --------------080107040709070300060100 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ernest;
    I have a few video clips I can send you that you can strip the sound off. But I'll have to get them for you tonight as I'm just heading out now.



Ernest Christley wrote:
Does anyone have recording of the ambient noise of the rotary from inside a closed cockpit?

I want to add the sound to my Xplane model.  I could also use a recording of the engine starting.

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--------------080107040709070300060100 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="RV Signature.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RV Signature.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/4QC4RXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEB AgAcAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAAZgAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAAegAAAAAAAABBQ0Qg U3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIEltYWdpbmcAMjAwNzowMToyOSAyMzo0NDoyNQAEAACQBwAEAAAA MDIyMJCSAgAEAAAAMzI5AAKgBAABAAAAlgAAAAOgBAABAAAAQAAAAAAAAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcG BQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgy PC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCACBAJ0DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEA AAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1Fh ByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVW V1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5 usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEB AQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdh cRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RV VldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD3 +iiigAoorkfE/iiW18SaP4U0yWOPVNV3uZnUMLeFVZmbbnljtYLnjIOemDcIObsgOtLqGClh uPIGeTS1zHhzwVaaFqd1q891cahq10Cj3VzIWKJnOxAfurnn6+gwBB8QrfTV8Py6rrF7fx2O nxtIba1uTCJ3OAoYjBJzwBkD5vpilCLmoxd/kK+h11FcH8MfBUXhrQLS9uYpY9YuoN14DM7K WY7slSSA2NoJHcGpvHN9qf8AaWkaNpOrXNnd6lIVRbeBDtRTmWR3YHChSMAAEnvjpTpJ1OSL v5/1cL6XO2orzDw1pOvW3j8HTvFGran4dhRjeSagwkSSUggJE3fBIJKgAYxknIHp9TVpqm0k 7gncKKK4Z/i14Unu00/Sb46lqUs628NvDDIA7ltud5XbtHUsM8AkZqYUpz+FXC9juaKKy5/E GnweILbQvMaTUZ4zMIY1z5cY6u56KueB6k8VKi3sM1KKKKQBRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABXl3xas2s tS8MeJrCeKPVbS/jt445JAnno55XoT6/QM1ek31vJd2E9vDdS2skiFVniA3xk9xkEZ/CsjQf B+maAodDcXt4Qd97fymaZs4z8zfdBwOBgcCt6E1Tlzv7u4mrm/XHa3bHxN41sNHdSdN0kJqN 5yQJJiSIYzg8gbWcg/7NdjVOz0y2sbm+uIQ3nXswmndjkswRUH0AVVGKinPkbfXoDLleKSy6 lc+ItS8c61YjUvD1q01jGLW5aIpBHIQzmLOJVJHILc4zjgCvXdZtb690q4ttNvlsbqRCqXDR eZsyOoGQM1zen/DXR7awtLPUbi91a3tFCwQXso8lABgDylCq3/Agxz3rbD1IU03Lr99v68xN XK978R9KS3itfD4ju7gwRTHeDFBaxOAUaQ46kEYjUFj0wOtO8M+Ikn0WDUVudQ1XUdTLeTE8 flqyozAMsYO2GLr8zckbcljgVsaT4L0XR769v4bd5r29YtNcXD73IP8ACD/CoHAAxxVuw8Oa Zo2kTabo1uumQyqw32qgOrEY35IOWHHJz0FEp0VHlimGpy3hfxNr3ma4mvta3ht7ryLN7GMq srBMyKM9FUjG5jwQwJ4xVDwreT3N7P4o1GP7ZqmpF4dJsbdcrBbK3DZx8obAYu2Mjbjkha6m DwNodr4fu9HtoZIoryFoJ5/MLTOjFiwLtk8lmPplj61o2Og2OlaJ/ZWmK1lCIfKWSEgyL8u0 NuYHLDjBOegpyq0/e5Vv+X/BCzOP0DxfrNlD4gm8TNFeR2dz5Vq2l2zsZWVcyqqjJKqeNx6E NkjFa2ieN7LWfC1pr0VjKk195gitVIaRgjsuSeAF+Ukk4A9fXU0Twto/h+za3sLXG9Ssksjl 5JASWO5zyeWY46ZY+tR6d4M8O6TpE2lWOkwQ2c42zIuSZR6OxO5h2wSeOKU50ZXsuq+70/H/ ACBJnnY+JXih/C9zrJsrKB72+Sz01JWPlAE7dyYG6U5ySeFwBjnK12/hzxbHf6tN4evYrq31 K0t43DXoSN7xSCDIqKeBlckYGM9B0GvJoGnzataajLCHlsojHaxnHlwZ6sq9mIwM9gMDGTm+ beA3IuTDGZwuwS7RuC9cZ649qKlWlJWUbAkySiiiuUoKKKKACiiigArE0/xXper6te6dpjyX kljxcyRL+7jbsu44Bbg8LnGOcVzXxk8SXHhvwBM1m7x3N9KtokiHBQMCWOe3yqRn1Ipnwc0W Pw/8N7KecpHLqD/anZm67yFjHPqoXj1NdKoJUHVl1dkK+tjrtC8Q2XiK3nnsVnCwSmCUTRFC sq/eTnqVPBIyM9Ca5nWPitpGj+Lm8MNpmrXWpb0jVbaOJldnAIwTICOo6gflzVqxsvE+ia1c BP7Bi8MfaJrqViZjd/OWkYnomd5PsF9cV454AOo+LfiL4h8X2tutxc2kctxaxTEgeY+ViU47 BN3/AHyPrW9HD05c838KXfq9rkts9rtfHulyaJqOrahb3ukW2nzm3mGoRqjFwBwoVm3dQBjr 2qRfGtktppV1cWGo28GqyeVaM8IO9j9wEKSV3DLDIAAU5K9K474reDNU8U+HbOy0Sdbm602T zLu3LBWnZkGHyeN/B4yOG+lct8IPEWvazrx8La6s11ZWMTuonDLLauo2BSwwejMMN0OMYxTj hqc6Lqx6brsv61C7vY9A1T4u6BpGkRapc2ep/Zri4eC22xx5uFTrKgL8x9OeOo4p8fxX0ptI 1XUpdH1m3h0xIHnWeGNWImwU2/vME4YHBI4I78V5d48hj8W/GLSPB9kgj07TxFZiJOFRQN8m 3HTCAD/gFbnx6vLTR9Hg0ixj8qbVrgXV2VOd6xIsag56DhMYwPkPvnWOFpN04W1lr6L/AIa/ zFzPU6OP45+GTBa3M9hrNtZ3Mjxx3MsEewlApbhXLcbl6Dv7GvS4pUmhSWNg0bqGVh3B5Br5 r0DR9K1Hx3o3grxDFOy6dCEhitWBjeZlM0vmk/N1IXj+72r6WRVRFRAFVRgAdAK58bRpUnFQ W+vy6FRbe4tFFFcJQUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUZpM0AY3inwrpnjDRH0vVY3MJYOjxnDxuOjKee eSPxqay0RLRbVJbu4uktYkjhSXYFUqoG7CqMsevPTsBV26knS0la0iSW4CHy45H2KzdgWwcD 3wfpXL+FNa8Sa3eXNxdjR/7LimktwbXzfMMiYDbWbAZd+8ZwPu988bR53B66IXU3de0dPEGi XWlTXVzbQ3SGOV7YqHKHgrllYYI46ZrJ8F+BNM8C2t1baZcXk0dy4kf7SyMQQMcFVX9c10+a p6rqtpo2nS317Jshjx9WJOAoHckkAD1NTGc+X2aej6BZbmbZeFk0/wAQ6vrNvql+JdUUedA5 RokdVCq6jbkEAY5JB754w7QPCWl+G4rw2Cyfa71zLdXkpDTTOc/MTjHUk4AC5J45q5oepy6v o1tqE1lLZG4XzFglOXVSfl3ehIwcds4rQzRKc9Yt/wBILI4fw/8AC3R/DvimTxFb6hqdxfym QyG5eJlcvyxIEYwc+hFN8SfCrSfFPiNdc1DVNVF1GFESxvCEjCnIABjORkk8561u23jLRL3V tQ061uvPk06LzLqWJd0cXONpYdW4PAz0PeoNC8a2Ov6re2EFhqdq9pEkzSXtqYVdGyAV3HPY 9QOhxnFb+0xCk563S/AVlsM8N+ANC8MahcalaxzXGpXJYzXt0++Rixyx4AAyeuAK6isPw/4l i8RzXz2drKLC3dY4rtyNtySMkoO6gFfm759q281hVc3L95uNW6C0Umaparq9lotg17fS+XEC FAClmdicBVUcsxPAA5qEm3ZDL1Fc3oOv6hq2p3EV5aW9giRiRbN5d90qk4VpAvypnBwuSeK6 PcKc4uLswForMm8R6JbzNDPrGnxSoSrRvcorKR2IJ4qa11fTr7m0vra4AOP3Uyvz+BqQLtFJ mloAQ9aSlPWkoAxfFF3cQaObWxk8vUL9xaWr8ZR2By+D12KGfHfZWBZeKNH0ATaRYR+To2gW i/a7iRG6ldyRxjq7FQXJ9Mdc5HavbxSTRSugZ4iShP8ACSMH9KpRaFpcN/fXyWMX2m+x9pkY bjJhQuOegwo4HHFbQnBR5ZL/AIf/AIbbzFYwNa8Y3aaBFqWgWEd4WeIOLhyijeQNilQdzDPJ HyrgknjByNX8U6PqWo2l5cSi90YzG1soLZfMa8uP+Wjenlqpx6n5gMg4bubvR9OvntWurSKY WrboEcZRGxjIXpkDgHHGTjqahtPDukWMtzLb6fCktzI8kr4yzM5yxyeRkntVwqUorbX+v6/q 4WZgab4zv9Z17To7HS4ho98jvHPPPsneNVz5wix/q8lVGcHLZxiui1oQJp0lxe3b29jbo01z sO3eijJBPUL64wT64yCul6Hpmi20UGn2ccKQxiJCAWYKOANxyT0HU07U9Ni1WCO3ndvswkWS SNePN2nIUn+7kAkd8Y6EgxKUHNcqsv6/ENTldA0/U9L8JajrFhptqmtak/2lbWZ/KSNB8sUZ IHGyMLx0znnnNZc/iazu/DgjeSWyXyzd61LdgNKIAxTjZkOZGAC4+XZ7YB7i90O21K7Et/Lc XEK4K2jviAHHUqAN/wBH3D0xTptA0m41RdSnsIZLtYlhEjjOEBJAx04JJ6Voq0L3ktf60/r8 RWIdNvrK38OWV1FazW1vMivFblN0hL/MAQpOWOcnk9SSetYK+Obmxk1461pyxpYMDaxWbGaW ddu5gRgDIyoJB25bbnI57YYrKXw1oy6dPp62EYtp33zKCcytu3Zds5Yk8nJ579azjKnd863H qRtr6ReW8sFwYs+U5traW4xL3UeWp4XkFiAM8dQQM7X9O8rU21691aVLWGFYbe1iiAcSMxHy MSfnclU4APYEZrp4o44YliiRUjQBVRAAFA7Adqhmsop7yC5l3O0GTGp+6rHjdj1xkZ7An1NK M1F3QGR4S8OpoGnzPIiC/vpTc3bKxYbz0QMeSFGFBPJwSeSa0tYvv7N0i5u8bmjjJRR1Zuig e5JAq9XL+KrnzJrSwXGObiXoeFOEGOvLHIP+xRG9WpruxNpI5DTGstRgglsZ2H2fMZcwgHLY LHBHU9cj1NY8fjLQ5LBF1DE1zgpLH9lJG8NjbyMdhWR41k1DRNWSewvJoYrxWdjGx3Kw4I64 wcgjPIOeQK45ji3j8p0YDDuZrcCRM8suTk8dj1we1PE4/wBjLktZo0o4V1FzM+l/B13HceH4 443LrbuYgSu35fvIMeyMo/CuirzD4Q3076Sbe6uHd3QmNGHRY5Gj6/Ty/wAvrXp46VnJ3d+5 NraMQ0lV7+/tdNtXuryZIYEHzOx/Ie5PYDrXL6j49httn2TTLu5Zz+78zEPmDGTt3c8ZGcgU Ri5bIL9DsKM1wMHjHWpp3aeDTLWHnYitJM/tk4UevSoR4i1MF1fUpWB6GO3RMD8c1oqE2O0n smeh5FU7i8kaT7PZory/xu33Iv8Ae9T/ALI59cda8Vv/AIiPp6Tx+bql1tkZGM1wy7RkjGF5 6etcifiF9meRtOgNsWfzAVkZireoLHI/DFTCm6n8P3vRP89jteW4iKTqJRv3a/Lf8D3rWbWW G60sz3lxM81yscnzlE2kjICKQAPrk+9a/wDwj+jNJ5h0uyMmd28wqWz65xnPvXzXefE/xDfP bPNqE5a35jKrEuDxycLyeBz9fWtHS/iN4muUuZ5NTv3trdQZZBhyvXgAbcnAJ69Aa1WFrySX I/w/zM5YRQ1dSP4/5H0O2kWhkV0NxEy9PKuJEH4gHB/EGsXX9RutAt0S21Ca4u53/cxTxLIA MjP3dpwB05znv1rxWL4j+LJLswO97BtXzJGmLIETruOT6dvyqsnj/V4bm6uRYPcSBwsk06Oz DccAdflye3rVxwVZP3oO3y/zI9hF7VI/e/8AI9rh8S6yltH51tYSz7RvAd41z3xw1Wh4suEh Bl0ou/dYJ1I/Dft4rxJ/iTr8eC2kIAX8sEQv97+71689Kf8A8LG1/wC2W1p/ZcH2i6YLDGVI LknA71u8Kv8An3L8P8yfqzX/AC9j97/yPcv+EttFiDzWl8hPVRD5hB/4CTmp/wDhKdGWESS3 nkqQM+dGyYPocjg141qHi7XbWWSO0hsr9oFH2owowWBi20KSxGckHGOtX9S17WNMa7R59OP2 O28+4/dSDaCdqjrzk5+mKxlhe0Zfh/mJUf8Ap5H73/keww6xptxGrxX9s6sMgiVef1rjb25a +1K9u0OQz+VCWx9xOBgjqCdzA/7Vcx9p1G+vJ7RptJmMLIsnmWzECRhuC4J5O3k+leY6v471 u8vJWt9Wnt4w21EtmCR8cZHfnrz61ph8PJSu4v7v+Cwlh3Ne7OL+b/VI7TxD4XvbnXLbUIy7 vIuHJl3BJAGxweicAZHQknFZU3hbxDqSW04jtjHcD7sLACIZxhy/J6dRnPNc1Z+NtagkV7nU rucKrDaZiASe5z6Vd0v4jatp9tHDvE0aDCpIq8de45PXuazqYHmlJOLafob06VZWSlFfeese CbK88O3FnDe3MWxrlo1EIJyJF6HI/vgGvWAcgGvmAfFbUmZB9mgTDqQ0YO4YIPHJ549K+m4J RPbxSqGAdAwDDB5GeR2rGvS9nZJNLzMatKUHeTTb7f8ADIytf0VtXihaG5NvdQMWicqXTngh kyM5HfII7HrnyT4neHPFUmj2strprSm2dpJZLKTzBtI7KQG7ZPFe5nrTSKmnWcNLXXZ7GSbj JTi7NdT4iOq34JBuZARwRnpSf2tf/wDPzJ+dfUHj34a+GvElnLqF2w0u4t42dr2BQAFGSTIv Rh1OeD71434b+DeseJ7OXULW+gg01nItJ7hGVrhASN+wZKjjua9ujicBOHNOnFP/AAr/ACNX jMZ0qy/8Cf8AmcA+o3cilHuJCp689ag818feb8697079nez+xr/aWt3Jusnd9mRQntjcM1aP 7O+iZ/5DWp/98x/4VccywdKNoRt6JGM6leo7zk2/Ntnzz5j/AN5vzq3Fqk8VmtqgiwshlDlA XBIA6np0Fd5o/wAMrab4nah4S1a9u7dY0eS0ljRczKCCpORjlM9O4I7V6La/s++HI5c3Gp6l OmCNmUTn1yFraeZ0Ibp/d/wTPlk92eC/8JHrJ2/8TK5+SRpVw54ZupH5n25NNXXtWR3db6cM y7S27kDngHt1PSvo2H4EeC492+K/kB/vXRGP++QK2bb4T+B7ZFC+H7dyqhd0ru5Puct1rB5x Q6Q/IXs2fLQ8QasN2b+YhkKMGbIYEknI78nqeab9u1S9vYrsSzy3MZHlyRjlSuMYx34H5Cvs G28I+HLNI1t9B02PyxhSLVCR+JGa1be1gtIvKt4Y4Y852xqFH5CsnnS+zT/H/gDVLzPkGOw8 a6zqa6tHYaxeXcLLicWzsUI5XtgY61tWPgf4l3UNzDDpt9HHJOLiZZ3SLzJM53HcRu5FfVGK MfSsJZxVeiivu/4I/Zo+d7L4b/FGVrqF76K0S7ZpZ3kvAd7sADkoCckfyp9n+z3rjOoutcsI IyDuMKySEH2BCg/nX0NiisXmeIezS+SKUEtjxK1/Z5hV0a78TXEig/MIbYISPYljg/ga3LH4 D+FbV1a4uNUuwM/JJcBVP/fCg8deteo0VhLGV5byf5fkVc5vTPAHhXR5I5LLQ7RZI23JJIpk dT6hnJNdMOgptO7VzuTlq2FxDTTTiKQrmkB4Z4v+KHh/V/FQ0bUXvW8O2cn78Wqhheygjhju B8pcHgZLH8K9C0f4l+CdRVYbPW7SDaAqxzqYMccAbgB+Vcb4q+AtnqWpR3Wg3osFklLXMUxL qATkmPuD14Jx9K6XSvgz4M0sAvprXr8fPdyl/wDx0YX9K7qn1RwSi5X+ViVzXO8VlZQysCp5 BByDTZWdYnZF3OFJVc4yfSnRxLFGscaqqKAFVRgADoAPSnFc1wlHxx4j8XeJtU8RjUdUu7i2 1K2ykYjBga3HdVAwR1PvWx4Y+I3j63vxDpt7eas7D/j2mRrnIHt94fgRX0R4s+H3h7xmYH1e zLzQ52TROY3wexI6jpwelauh+H9M8OabFp+lWcVtbxgDCDlvdj1Y+5r1XmNJ0+T2K/r5fqRy O+5jeB9Z8TazprS+JdBXS5lA8thJ/ruuT5ZyyYwOp5zXV0bTS4rzJPmd7WLEopcUYqQEopcU YoASilxRigBKKXFGKAEp3akxS0AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUU UUAFFFFAH//Z --------------080107040709070300060100-- --------------070207030406000604000806--