X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.100] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with ESMTP id 2183915 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:24:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l6I1NWZN025825 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001001c7c8da$aef201f0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mustang II CG? Was [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:26:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7C8B9.2791A5B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7C8B9.2791A5B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, thanks for the information, Bob. Yes, the nice thing is we can deviate from plans to accommodate OUR = plans. Sounds like by moving thing aft you have the matter well in = hand. But, it is incredible how things can have a ripple effect. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rogers, Bob J.=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 5:05 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mustang II CG? Was [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook = Question Ed, =20 As you correctly observed, the engine is mounted further from the = firewall than normal. The answer is a lesson what happens when one = deviates from the plans. Since I have a water-cooled engine, I use the = hot water from the engine for cabin heat through a standard auto heater. = The unit (with a fan) is just aft of the firewall, centered in front of = the rudder pedals. This placement required the rudder pedals to be = moved a little further aft, which in turn, required the seats to be a = little further aft. This is all OK, because with the T-18 canopy, the = instrument panel can be moved back about 2 inches, which gives more room = for radios and instruments. However, the baggage area behind the seats = becomes very small (and my wife was complaining that there was not = enough room for baggage to start with). My solution was to open up the = baggage compartment to the next bulkhead, which gives a lot of room, but = shifts the CG further aft. To compensate for all of this, the engine = must be moved forward. =20 I mounted the engine on the airframe with a temporary engine mount, = with all known accessories and weights installed, and weighed the plane. = Then, I found the CG of the engine FWF and weighed it separately. I = was able to calculate where the engine should be placed to get the = correct CG and establish the limits for fuel, baggage, and passengers. = By calculation, the engine needed to be where it now is in order to = balance the other things that moved the CG aft. Based on the amount of = weight currently on the tail wheel, it appears to be just about right, = but I have to do another weight and balance when everything is finished = to be absolutely sure. =20 This is what happens when you deviate from the plans. But, I guess = using a non-certified rotary engine is a pretty big deviation in and of = itself. One good deviation deserves another, I always say. =20 =20 Bob =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:28 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Mustang II CG? Was [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook = Question =20 Hi Bob, =20 Good to hear from you. Nice looking installation, neat turbo set up. = Should make the Mustang exceed Ve going straight up {:>) =20 But, I do have a question - the engine + Turbo seems to be pretty far = out from the firewall, what does that do to your CG?=20 =20 The reason I ask is I have a 13B in my RV-6A and the water pump = pulley is approx 8" from the firewall and that put me a tiny bit = nose-heavy. Well, at least until I took out 30 lbs of battery and = painted the aircraft. I did build a bit stout which of course added to = the weight FWF. =20 But, must admit, I'm not familiar with the engine installation in a = Mustang II. So how far out is the water pump pulley from your = firewall? and is that approx where a 360 lycoming would sit? in a = Mustang? =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html =20 I ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rogers, Bob J.=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question =20 Yes, it has an aftermarket Turbonetics 60-1 turbo with external = wastegate and 1.15 A/R. I can vary the boost by 10 psi from the cockpit = with a manual control regulator. It remains to be seen how well it all = works. =20 Bob =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:25 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question =20 Look'n good Bob. Best I can tell you've got a turbo 13B under the = cowl. Is that correct? Looks like we should have quite a showing at = the next Rotary Roundup and/or Sun-n-Fun. =20 =20 BTW, one nice thing that Ron Gowan did was to write a letter to the = FAA stating that I built the a/c and recommended that I be granted a = repairman's certificate. Not sure if it is necessary, but it sure won't = hurt either.=20 =20 Mark =20 On 7/16/07, Rogers, Bob J. wrote:=20 Thanks Mark, =20 Yes, I live in Plano, TX and have a hangar at the McKinney municipal = airport. You can see and read about my project at = http://www.eaa1246.org/projectsnplanesdisplay.asp?id=3D10 =20 I am currently working on the engine baffling. Everything else is = pretty much done. But as you know, it is all the remaining little = details that take forever.=20 =20 Bob =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto: = flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 6:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question=20 =20 His phone number is 817/975-2138. Email is rongowan@yahoo.com. I = take it you live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area? =20 =20 Mark =20 On 7/12/07, Rogers, Bob J. < BRogers@fdic.gov> wrote:=20 Mark, =20 I would like to use Ron Gowan as my DAR when the time comes to have = my rotary powered Mustang II inspected (within the next year, I hope). = Do you have a phone number for Ron that I could call to contact him?=20 =20 Thanks, =20 Bob Rogers =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 8:08 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question=20 =20 Chris,=20 The only thing he asked me to do was pay for his gas to fly down. = He indicated that $10 would suffice, but we both know that that wouldn't = hardly get him to the runup area. Due to all the heavy rains and = overcast skies, we had trouble getting things coordinated. He flies for = Delta out of Atlanta from Thursday through Sunday. He normally flies = back from Atlanta on Sunday or Monday. Instead, he flew into Austin, = rented a car and drove down to Lockhart, then drove north to Dallas = afterwards. I gave him $150 to cover the car rental and gas. I had = planned on taking him to have BBQ, but he was in a hurry to head home. = He said that he does it as a service to the EAA community. It sure = beats the local DAR's prices. =20 =20 Mark =20 =20 On 7/9/07, Christopher Barber < CBarber@texasattorney.net > wrote: = Thanks for the update, success and the report on Ron Gowen. He is = who I plan to call first as I have not only met him, he let me fly from = the back seat of one of his Vari-EZ's when I was up in Denton visiting = Alex a few years ago. I think he either has or had a rotory powered EZ = (even though the one I flew in had a Lyc). The day I was there, he had = just recieved a new Marconni PSRU. He was very pleased with it.=20 =20 If you don't mind, would you please share the details of his cost = and expectations as to come for a visit? =20 Congrats on turning your piles of fiberglass, metal and foam into = a real honest to goodness flying machine. =20 All the best, =20 Chris Barber Houston ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 3:59 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question=20 =20 Kelly,=20 =20 Thanks for the words of encouragement. The rains have stopped = here in central Texas, the sun is once again shining, and the doves = returned to the ark with twigs in their mouths. The DAR came out to the = airport today in his kayak and did the final inspection on my Lancair = ES/20B project. And he actually signed it off!!! So, it is officially = an "airplane" and no longer a "project". How about that? Its been a = long haul, but now the fun begins... as soon as I get some recurrency = training to bring me up to speed. He said I did a good job with much = attention to detail, then he took my money and left. ;-) I'll should = get the paperwork in the mail in a few days. Soon I'll be starting the = 40-hour testing phase. I had asked for a 200 mile radius, but that = would have put me over the Houston area, so he cut it down to 100 miles. = He said that the FAA frowns on more than that, especially with auto = conversions. So, I'lll have to make do with a 100 mile radius. =20 =20 If anyone wants/needs a DAR with rotary experience, and you're = in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, I would highly recommend this inspector. = His name is Ron Gowan. He has 500 hrs PIC flying a rotary. He also has = composites experience. I felt that he would be a good choice even if he = didn't have extensive composites experience. =20 He said the two biggest areas to pay very close attention is the = psru and the cooling system. He said that the rotary engine is rock = solid. (That really impressed the old timers at the airport.)=20 =20 So, all you guys working away month after month, keep the faith, = there is a glorious day coming. ;-) =20 Mark S. =20 On 7/7/07, Kelly Troyer < keltro@att.net> wrote:=20 Mark, Pulling for you !! You will certainly have one going and beautiful aircraft........Will absolutely be a plus for the = Rotary movement in general and a worthy addition to the somewhat rare 20B engine group....... -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 =20 -------------- Original message from "Mark Steitle" < = msteitle@gmail.com>: --------------=20 > Mark Steitle wrote: > >> Here's a non-rotary question for the group. The DAR will = be=20 >> coming out Monday morning to inspect my project. Hopefully = it=20 >> will qualify as an airplane once he's done. He mentioned = to me to >> be sure to have my airframe logbook so that he can make his = >> required log entry. (Here's the problem.) I don't have a = logbook=20 >> yet. But according to an A&P on the Lancair list, the = logbook can >> be done in 3-ring binder format, or even on computer. I = would=20 >> like to make one up in the 3-ring binder format, but don't = have=20 >> any idea of what's required. Anyone on the list been = through thi s >> and have a page format they are willing to share? Mark S.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C7C8B9.2791A5B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, thanks for the information, = Bob.
 
Yes, the nice thing is we can deviate from plans = to=20 accommodate OUR plans.  Sounds like by moving thing aft you have = the matter=20 well in hand.  But, it is incredible how things can have a ripple=20 effect.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rogers, = Bob J.=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 = 5:05=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Mustang II CG?=20 Was [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question

Ed,

 

As you = correctly=20 observed, the engine is mounted further from the firewall than = normal.  The answer is a lesson what = happens=20 when one deviates from the plans.  Since I have a water-cooled = engine, I=20 use the hot water from the engine for cabin heat through a standard = auto=20 heater.  The unit (with = a fan) is=20 just aft of the firewall, centered in front of the rudder pedals.   This placement required the = rudder=20 pedals to be moved a little further aft, which in turn, required the = seats to=20 be a little further aft.  This is=20 all OK, because with the T-18 canopy, the instrument panel can be = moved back about 2 inches, which gives more room for = radios and=20 instruments.  However, = the baggage=20 area behind the seats becomes very small (and my wife was complaining = that=20 there was not enough room for baggage to start with).  My solution was to open up = the baggage=20 compartment to the next bulkhead, which gives a lot of room, but = shifts the CG=20 further aft.  To = compensate for=20 all of this, the engine must be moved = forward.

 

I mounted = the engine=20 on the airframe with a temporary engine mount, with all known = accessories and=20 weights installed, and weighed the plane.  Then, I found the CG of the = engine FWF=20 and weighed it separately.  I was=20 able to calculate where the engine should be placed to get the correct = CG and=20 establish the limits for fuel, baggage, and passengers.  By calculation, the engine = needed to be=20 where it now is in order to balance the other things that moved the CG = aft.=20   Based on the = amount of=20 weight currently on the tail wheel, it appears to be just about right, = but I=20 have to do another weight and balance when everything is finished to = be=20 absolutely sure.

 

This is = what happens=20 when you deviate from the plans.  But, I guess using a = non-certified=20 rotary engine is a pretty big deviation in and of itself.  One good deviation deserves = another, I=20 always say. =20

 

Bob

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 = 10:28=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Mustang II = CG? Was=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question

 

Hi=20 Bob,

 

Good to hear from = you.  Nice=20 looking installation, neat turbo set up.  Should make the Mustang = exceed=20 Ve going straight up {:>)

 

 But, I do have a = question -=20 the engine + Turbo seems to be pretty far out from the firewall, what = does=20 that do to your CG? 

 

 The reason I ask = is I have a=20 13B in my RV-6A and the water pump pulley is approx 8" from the = firewall and=20 that put me a tiny bit nose-heavy.  Well, at least until I took = out 30=20 lbs of battery and painted the aircraft.  I did build a bit stout = which=20 of course added to the weight FWF.

 

But, must admit, I'm not = familiar=20 with the engine installation in a Mustang II.   So how far = out is=20 the water pump pulley from your firewall? and is that approx where a = 360=20 lycoming would sit? in a Mustang?

 

Ed

 

Ed Anderson
Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.comhttp:/= /members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html

 

I

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Rogers, = Bob J.=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent: Monday,=20 July 16, 2007 12:58 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question

 

Yes, it = has an=20 aftermarket Turbonetics 60-1 turbo with external wastegate and 1.15=20 A/R.  I can vary the = boost by 10=20 psi from the cockpit with a manual control regulator.   It remains to be = seen how well=20 it all works.

 

Bob

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 = 11:25=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Logbook=20 Question

 

Look'n good Bob.  Best I can tell = you've got a=20 turbo 13B under the cowl.  Is that correct?  Looks like we = should=20 have quite a showing at the next Rotary Roundup and/or = Sun-n-Fun. =20

 

BTW, one nice thing that Ron Gowan did was = to write=20 a letter to the FAA stating that I built the a/c and recommended = that I be=20 granted a repairman's certificate.  Not sure if it is = necessary, but it=20 sure won't hurt either.

 

Mark

 

On 7/16/07, Rogers, Bob J. <BRogers@fdic.gov>=20 wrote:

Thanks=20 Mark,

 

Yes, I = live in=20 Plano, TX=20 and have a hangar at the McKinney municipal airport.  = You can=20 see and read about my project at http://www.eaa1246.org/projectsnplanesdisplay.asp?id=3D10=

 

I am = currently=20 working on the engine baffling.  Everything else is pretty much = done.=20  But as you know, it is all the remaining little details that = take=20 forever.

 

Bob

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto: flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark = Steitle
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 = 6:24=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Logbook=20 Question

 

His=20 phone number is 817/975-2138.  Email is rongowan@yahoo.com. =20 I take it you live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area? =20

 

Mark

 

On=20 7/12/07, Rogers, Bob = J. < = BRogers@fdic.gov>=20 wrote:

Mark,

 

I would = like to use=20 Ron Gowan as my DAR when the time comes to have my rotary powered = Mustang II=20 inspected (within the next year, I hope).  Do you have a phone = number=20 for Ron that I could call to contact him? =

 

Thanks,

 

Bob=20 Rogers

 

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Mark Steitle =

To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft

Sent:=20 Monday, July 09, 2007 8:08 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question =


 

Chris, =

The=20 only thing he asked me to do was pay for his gas to fly = down.  He=20 indicated that $10 would suffice, but we both know that that = wouldn't=20 hardly get him to the runup area.  Due to all the heavy rains = and=20 overcast skies, we had trouble getting things coordinated.  = He flies=20 for Delta out of Atlanta from Thursday = through=20 Sunday.  He normally flies back from Atlanta = on Sunday or=20 Monday.  Instead, he flew into Austin, rented a car and drove down to = Lockhart,=20 then drove north to Dallas afterwards.  I gave = him $150=20 to cover the car rental and gas.  I had planned on = taking him to=20 have BBQ, but he was in a hurry to head home.  He said = that he=20 does it as a service to the EAA community.  It sure = beats the=20 local DAR's prices.   =

 

Mark   

 

On=20 7/9/07, Christopher = Barber=20 <=20 CBarber@texasattorney.net > wrote: =

Thanks for the = update, success=20 and the report on Ron Gowen.  He is who I plan to call first = as I=20 have not only met him, he let me fly from the back seat of one of = his=20 Vari-EZ's when I was up in Denton visiting Alex a few years = ago.  I=20 think he either has or had a rotory powered EZ (even though the = one I flew=20 in had a Lyc).  The day I was there, he had just recieved a = new=20 Marconni PSRU.  He was very pleased with it.=20

 

If you don't mind, = would you=20 please share the details of his cost and expectations as to come = for a=20 visit?

 

Congrats on turning = your piles=20 of fiberglass, metal and foam into a real honest to goodness = flying=20 machine.

 

All the=20 best,

 

Chris=20 Barber

Houston

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Mark Steitle =

To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft

Sent:=20 Monday, July 09, 2007 3:59 PM =

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Logbook Question =


 

Kelly, =

 

Thanks for the words=20 of encouragement.  The rains have stopped = here in=20 central Texas, the sun is = once=20 again shining, and the doves returned to the ark with twigs = in=20 their mouths.  The DAR came out to the airport today in his = kayak=20 and did the final inspection on my Lancair=20 ES/20B project.  And he actually signed it = off!!!  So, it=20 is officially an "airplane" and no longer a "project".  How = about=20 that?  Its been a long haul, but now the fun begins... = as soon=20 as I get some recurrency training to bring me up to speed.  = He=20 said I did a good job with much attention to detail, = then he=20 took my money and left.  ;-)  I'll should = get the=20 paperwork in the mail in a few days.  Soon I'll = be=20 starting the 40-hour testing phase.  I had asked for a 200 = mile=20 radius, but that would have put me over the Houston = area, so he=20 cut it down to 100 miles.  He said that the FAA frowns on = more than=20 that, especially with auto conversions.  So, I'lll have=20 to make do with a 100 mile radius. =20

 

If=20 anyone wants/needs a DAR with rotary experience, and you're in = the=20 Dallas/Ft. Worth area, I = would highly=20 recommend this inspector.  His name is Ron Gowan.  He = has 500=20 hrs PIC flying a rotary.  He also has composites=20 experience.  I felt that he would be a good choice = even if he=20 didn't have extensive composites experience. =20

He=20 said the two biggest areas to pay very close attention is the = psru and=20 the cooling system.  He said that the rotary engine is rock = solid.=20 (That really impressed the old timers at the airport.)=20

 

So,=20 all you guys working away month after month, keep the faith, = there is a=20 glorious day coming. ;-)

 

Mark=20 S.

 

On=20 7/7/07, Kelly = Troyer=20 <=20 keltro@att.net> wrote:

Mark,

   Pulling for you  = !! =20 You will certainly have one going=20 and

beautiful = aircraft........Will absolutely=20 be a plus for the Rotary

movement in general and a worthy = addition to the=20 somewhat

rare 20B engine=20 group.......

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B ROTARY=20 Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 

 

-------------- Original message from = "Mark=20 Steitle" <=20 msteitle@gmail.com>: --------------

> Mark = Steitle=20 wrote:
>
>> Here's a non-rotary question for = the=20 group.  The DAR will be
>> coming out = Monday=20 morning to inspect my project.  Hopefully it =
>>=20 will qualify as an airplane once he's done.  He = mentioned to=20 me to
>> be sure to have my airframe logbook so that = he can=20 make his
>> required log entry.  (Here's = the=20 problem.)  I don't have a logbook
>>=20 yet.  But according to an A&P on the Lancair = list, the=20 logbook can
>> be done in 3-ring binder format, or = even on=20 computer.  I would
>> like to make one up = in the=20 3-ring binder format, but don't have
>> any idea of = what's=20 required.  Anyone on the list been through thi = s
>>=20 and have a page format they are willing to = share?  Mark S.=20

 

 

 

 

 

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