X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.102] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with ESMTP id 2137950 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:50:03 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.102; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l5ONnH3H020490 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001901c7b6ba$60fb9060$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Fire was [FlyRotary] Re: Method of killing power?? Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:50:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C7B698.D99B3420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C7B698.D99B3420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, I can certainly understand your viewpoint - I have had experience = with fire myself and it do make you a believer {:>). Safety is a vital = factor in our hobby. That is why I always shut down the injectors first with their power = (disable) switch. That immediately cuts fuel flow to the combustion = chamber - even if you do have a leaky injector, it certainly shuts all = down but the leaky one. Then of course, I also cut my fuel pumps - = wouldn't do to leave them running on the battery for long {:>). = However, from my experience nothing stops the engine faster than = turning off the injectors. Its not 1 sec or 2 sec or 4 sec, it stops = before the prop turns another revolution. But, clearly, the vast majority (well, maybe with the exception of Rusty = and who can tell about him {:>)) prefer to turn off their fuel pumps = first. The engine will (with a couple seconds) die of fuel starvation = and stop. But, it will take a second or two. That will of course, drain = most of the fuel out of the fuel lines - but not all. I don't know if = there should be any concern about small remaining amounts of fuel = cooking and leaving gum or varnish, probably little problem if using = 100LL but could possibly be more of one with mogas. =20 Mark, I presume from you comment about the fire, that it was caused by = fuel dumping out the exhaust and igniting? Certainly sounds like the = engine got flooded somehow. When my first EFI a HALTECH died, it did = exactly that - all injectors went full open and fuel poured out the = exhaust like a stream of water - fortunately it did not ignite. Can be = scary for sure. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method of killing power?? Ed,=20 I am here to testify that turning off the fuel pumps, and/or the = injectors first should be considered a safety factor rather than a = personal preference. I'm not certain of the exact sequence, but on one = run I waited until the engine totally stopped before shutting off the = fuel pumps. I think I had shut off the two EC-2 switches first. This = was after a good hard ground run and it resulted in a fire. Luckily, a = fire extinguisher was close at hand or this story could have had a much = different ending. Raw fuel in a hot exhaust manifold, plugs up or not, = can result in a spontaneous combustion. I vote for shutting off the = fuel pumps first. No fuel, no fire. For me there is no discussion, = turn the fuel pumps off first... always!=20 Mark S. =20 On 6/24/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Thanks, Jim That's two for fuel pump shut off. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Maher=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 10:35 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method of killing power?? =20 Ed, I prefer the Fuel Pump shutoff method. On my airplane the fuel system will remain pressurized for a long = time after shut down. I don't like the idea of highly pressurized fuel inside a very hot = engine compartment. So by turning off the fuel pumps with the engine still running it = serves to de-pressurize the fuel system. This way if you do happen to get a stuck open injector it will not = flood the rotor housing with fuel.=20 It only takes a second or two for the engine to quit after fuel = pump shutoff. Jim Ed Anderson wrote: To everyone running a rotary engine and particularly flying with = one - what is your normal method of killing the engine.=20 1. Turning off Main Power 2. Turning off EC2 Power 3. Turning off ignition 4. Turning off Fuel Pumps 5. Turning off injectors 6. Other Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20 http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C7B698.D99B3420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark, I can certainly understand your viewpoint = - I have=20 had experience with fire myself and it do make you a believer = {:>). =20 Safety is a vital factor in our hobby.
 
That is why I always shut down the injectors = first with=20 their power (disable) switch.  That immediately = cuts fuel=20 flow to the combustion chamber - even if you do have a leaky injector, = it=20 certainly shuts all down but the leaky one.  Then of course, I also = cut my=20 fuel pumps - wouldn't do to leave them running on the battery for long=20 {:>).   However, from my experience  nothing = stops the=20 engine faster than turning off the injectors.  Its not 1 sec or 2 = sec or 4=20 sec, it stops before the prop turns another revolution.
 
But, clearly, the vast majority = (well,=20 maybe with the exception of Rusty and who can tell about him {:>)) = prefer to=20 turn off their fuel pumps first. The engine will  (with a = couple=20 seconds) die of fuel starvation and stop.  But, it will take a = second or=20 two. That will of course, drain most of the fuel out of the fuel lines - = but not=20 all.  I don't know if there should be any concern about small = remaining=20 amounts of fuel cooking and leaving gum or varnish, probably little = problem if=20 using 100LL but could possibly be more of one with mogas.  =
 
Mark, I presume from you comment about the fire, = that it=20 was caused by fuel dumping out the exhaust and igniting?  Certainly = sounds=20 like the engine got flooded somehow.  When my first EFI a HALTECH = died, it=20 did exactly that - all injectors went full open and fuel poured out the = exhaust=20 like a stream of water - fortunately it did not ignite.  Can be = scary for=20 sure.
 
Ed
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 = 5:55 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method = of=20 killing power??

Ed,
I am here to testify that turning off the fuel pumps, and/or the=20 injectors first should be considered a safety factor rather = than a=20 personal preference.  I'm not certain of the exact sequence, but = on one=20 run I waited until the engine totally stopped before shutting off the = fuel=20 pumps.  I think I had shut off the two EC-2 switches first.=20  This was after a good hard ground run and it resulted in a = fire. =20 Luckily, a fire extinguisher was close at hand or this story could = have had a=20 much different ending.   Raw fuel in a hot exhaust = manifold,=20 plugs up or not, can result in a spontaneous combustion.  I vote = for=20 shutting off the fuel pumps first.  No fuel, no fire.  For = me there=20 is no discussion, turn the fuel pumps off first... always!
 
Mark S.

 
On 6/24/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Thanks, Jim
 
That's two for fuel pump shut = off.
 
Ed
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = James = Maher
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 = 10:35=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Method of=20 killing power??

 
Ed,
I prefer the Fuel Pump shutoff method.
On my airplane the fuel system will remain pressurized for a = long=20 time after shut down.
I don't like the idea of highly pressurized fuel inside a = very hot=20 engine compartment.
So by turning off the fuel pumps with the engine still = running it=20 serves to de-pressurize the fuel system.
This way if you do happen to get a stuck open injector it = will not=20 flood the rotor housing with fuel.
It only takes a second or two for the engine to quit after = fuel pump=20 shutoff.
Jim

Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> = wrote:
To everyone running a rotary engine and = particularly=20 flying with one - what is your normal method of killing the=20 engine.
 
1.  Turning off Main=20 Power
2.  Turning off EC2 = Power
3.  Turning off = ignition
4.  Turning off Fuel=20 Pumps
5.  Turning off = injectors
6.  Other
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW=
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

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