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From: Lehanover@aol.com
Message-ID: <c89.b3dcc52.33124956@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:07:18 EST
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] motor mount plate
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
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In a message dated 2/24/2007 7:55:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
keltro@att.net writes:

Lynn,
   And here I sit with a "Mistral" mount plate residing where  the
stock front cover used to be on my 13B.......It allows the use of
a standard Lycoming "Dynafocal" mount ring to bolt my engine
to my "Dyke Delta".....What do you think are the chances of my
normally aspirated rotary from over-stressing its end-plates and
rotor housings......."Mistral" does have provisions for using a
four point bed type mount on the 13B (using their redrive) and
it is required on their 20B , three rotor  engine ......... Attached
photo is of "Mistral" 13B on a Glasair project of one the rotary
group, Steve Thomas in Calif.......Hope you do not mind Steve!!
--
Kelly Troyer 
"Dyke Delta"_13B  ROTARY Engine 
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold  




Francios Had the reduction unit in the motor tent at Sun &  Fun about 5 years 
ago, looking like a lost puppy. They had been trying to get  the Piper to fly 
long enough without frying the oil so they could have it on  display at the 
flight line. No dice. I talked to him for a very long time. He  took notes. 
They are all engineers, and trust math to get them out of  anything.
 
So they calculated everything, and on paper there would be enough oil  
cooling to do the job. 
Well that test location was in Florida before Global warming had died down.  
I suggested best power was down around 160 degrees max, and he was sad.  The 
coolers were big enough. The flow rate was high enough. Airflow  through the 
coolers was high enough.
The oil temp would just slowly climb into the red 230-240-250 and land  again.
 
They didn't realize the Mazda pump was designed to work OK at 2,000  
crankshaft RPM.
 
So, at 6,000 RPM it foams the daylights out of the oil. And air in the oil  
is an insulator, and the effect is that the coolers get smaller with time. The  
oil pump has a front and rear segment and those are shaded just a bit to 
reduce  noise. Both must pull suction oil from the back end so the number of sharp 
 corners the oil sees inside the pump is more than a normal pump. 
Plus, the higher flow was unhappy with the tiny bug screen at the end of a  
sharp edged tube in the pickup. So, there was a vena contracta problem.  So, 
they took off the bug screen and it started working well. They took  out the 
airplane oil and put in car oil Fewer polymers, and it worked better.  They made 
up a dual pickup casting to feed both ends of the pump like the FD oil  pump 
and everything is fine. 
 
The point of the story is that the mechanical parts have many actual hours  
of flying in a real airplane in hot weather. So, it is thoroughly test in a 
real  life situation. 
 
Their front Iron and mount is thicker and stiffer than the stock stuff.  
There will be no problems.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free 
email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at 
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face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D3>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/24/2007 7:55:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20
keltro@att.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>
  <DIV>Lynn,</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; And here I sit with a "Mistral" mount plate residing whe=
re=20
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>stock front cover used to be on my 13B.......It allows the use of</DI=
V>
  <DIV>a standard Lycoming "Dynafocal"&nbsp;mount ring to bolt my engine</DI=
V>
  <DIV>to my "Dyke Delta".....What do you think are&nbsp;the chances of my</=
DIV>
  <DIV>normally aspirated rotary from over-stressing its end-plates and</DIV=
>
  <DIV>rotor housings......."Mistral" does have provisions for using a</DIV>
  <DIV>four point bed type mount on the 13B (using their redrive) and</DIV>
  <DIV>it is required on their 20B , three rotor=20
  engine&nbsp;.........&nbsp;Attached</DIV>
  <DIV>photo is of "Mistral" 13B on a Glasair project of one the rotary</DIV=
>
  <DIV>group, Steve Thomas in Calif.......Hope you do not mind Steve!!</DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dsignature id=3Dsignature>--<BR>Kelly Troyer <BR>"Dyke Delta"_=
13B=20
  ROTARY Engine <BR>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 <BR>"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20
  <BR></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Francios&nbsp;Had the reduction unit in the motor tent at Sun&nbsp;&amp=
;=20
Fun about 5 years ago, looking like a lost puppy. They had been trying to ge=
t=20
the Piper to fly long enough without frying the oil so they could have it on=
=20
display at the flight line. No dice. I talked to him for a very long time. H=
e=20
took notes. They are all engineers, and trust math to get them out of=20
anything.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>So they calculated everything, and on paper there would be enough oil=20
cooling to do the job. </DIV>
<DIV>Well that test location was in Florida before Global warming had died d=
own.=20
I suggested best power was down around 160 degrees max, and he was sad.=20
&nbsp;The coolers were big enough. The flow rate was high enough. Airflow=20
through the coolers was high enough.</DIV>
<DIV>The oil temp would just slowly climb into the red 230-240-250 and land=20
again.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>They didn't realize the Mazda pump was designed to work OK at 2,000=20
crankshaft RPM.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>So, at 6,000 RPM it foams the daylights out of the oil. And air in the=20=
oil=20
is an insulator, and the effect is that the coolers get smaller with time. T=
he=20
oil pump has a front and rear segment and those are shaded just a bit to red=
uce=20
noise. Both must pull suction oil from the back end so the number of sharp=20
corners the oil sees inside the pump is more than a normal pump. </DIV>
<DIV>Plus, the higher flow was unhappy with the tiny bug screen at the end o=
f a=20
sharp edged tube in the pickup. So, there was a vena contracta problem.=20
&nbsp;So, they took off the bug screen and it started working well. They too=
k=20
out the airplane oil and put in car oil Fewer polymers, and it worked better=
.=20
They made up a dual pickup casting to feed both ends of the pump like the FD=
 oil=20
pump and everything is fine. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The point of the story is that the mechanical parts have many actual ho=
urs=20
of flying in a real airplane in hot weather. So, it is thoroughly test in a=20=
real=20
life situation. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Their front Iron and mount is thicker and stiffer than the stock stuff.=
=20
There will be no problems.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Lynn E. Hanover</DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">=
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