X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [216.148.248.31] (HELO enrwcap001.ent.textron.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.2) with ESMTP id 1322679 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:10:45 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.148.248.31; envelope-from=JHutchison2@bellhelicopter.textron.com Received: by bhdfwex110.bh.textron.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2658.27) id ; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 09:07:12 -0500 Message-ID: <3CAB2FE6D4255949A25157F5D666E623047DCA4D@bhdfwex103.bh.textron.com> From: "Hutchison, Jason" To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Back in the saddle again! Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 09:07:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2658.27) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6B3E1.73B800D0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6B3E1.73B800D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, =20 I am using 1 =BE secondary and 1 =BD primary tubes. That is what = matched the port size on the engine (when deformed to the oval shape of the port). = The lengths of the runners are eight inches from the side of the engine. = The runners terminate into a 4" manifold log and a 65 or 70 mm T/B. My plan = is to build a new manifold log with velocity stacks and then experiment = with different length radiator hose for runners. I know this is not optimal = for flow but it should get me in the ballpark quickly. Any suggestions are appreciated.=20 =20 Thanks, Jason _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:04 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back in the saddle again! =20 From the opening of the intake port (inside the engine) to the center = of my throttle body my intake length is 22". It appears that a length = between 17-24" is workable and gives good results. Tracy use a similar = approach (from which I stole a lot of ideas) and also got excellent results when = he was flying a 13B. =20 =20 Since I use the stock cast lower and part of the upper cast (which I = cut the cast tubes off and install my own light weight tubes) the actually = length of my tubes is 7-11 inches (adjustable - tubes inside tubes) . That is = the length between my cut-off upper manifold (the one with the 90 deg bend = and cast tubes) and bottom of my throttle body plate. However, The crucial distance of course is from intake port to throttle body - not how long = the tube portion itself it. I use 1 1/4" dia tubes for the primary and 1 = 1/2" dia tubes for the secondary. To make an adjustable one I have a 1 3/8" = dia tube over the 1 1/4 and a 1 5/8" tube over the 1 1/2" - but of course = you don't need to do that.=20 =20 Too large an intake tube appears to diminish the mixture velocity and inertia and decrease the amount of mixture stuffed into the combustion chamber, so while large intake diameters are fine for the 9000+ rpm = racers, they don't appear to offer what we need at the rpm we operate at. =20 Here is a photo of my most recent intake and one I have flow with for 3 years. The blue throttle body mount is make out of a two part = polyurethane casting resin and I use a 65mm Mustang TB. Here is a photo. =20 =20 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hutchison, Jason = To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back in the saddle again! =20 Ed, You are correct! I have the 2.85 drive. I scraped the tangential = muffler and now using spintech muffler. I received my velocity stacks last week, so = it on to rev "B" intake. By the way how long are your runners? =20 Thanks, Jason =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:56 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back in the saddle again! =20 Jason, if I recall correctly you do have the 2.85 gear box. You = should be seeing 5800-6000 rpm static (perhaps a bit less in that heat). I = however do not recall your prop set up but if it is close to the 74x88 prop Tracy = and I both fly with our 2.85 then it would appear your are not getting = adequate airflow into( or out of) the engine. =20 Ed =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hutchison, Jason = To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Back in the saddle again! =20 Update on my airplane, I now have four flights on my engine after = replacing the seals. Last night I was up for an hour. At 5000msl it was 28C temps stabilized at 197(water) and 188 oil. I still need more power. I am = only getting 5000rpm static which makes for very shallow climb outs. In the = air, I'm getting between 5500 and 6000 rpm at about 140mph (no wheel pants = or fairings).=20 =20 I did an experiment with a 12" fan mounted behind the radiator. The fan keeps the water temp under 190 on the ground, but caused about a 10-15 degree increase in the air. So now I'm thinking about mounting a small radiator with a fan under the engine.=20 =20 My next project is to rework the intake for more static rpm. =20 =20 Jason (waiting for winter or at least temps below 90 degrees) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6B3E1.73B800D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ed,

 

=

I am using 1 =BE secondary and 1 = =BD primary tubes. That is what matched the port size on the engine (when deformed = to the oval shape of the port). The lengths of the runners are eight inches = from the side of the engine. The runners terminate into a 4" manifold log and a = 65 or 70 mm T/B. My plan is to build a new manifold log with velocity = stacks and then experiment with different length radiator hose for runners. I know = this is not optimal for flow but it should get me in the ballpark quickly. Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

=

Thanks,

Jason


From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Sunday, July 30, = 2006 8:04 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Back in the saddle again!

 

From the opening of the intake port (inside the = engine) to the center of my throttle body my intake length is 22".  It = appears that a length between 17-24" is workable and gives good = results.  Tracy use a = similar approach (from which I stole a lot of ideas) and also got excellent = results when he was flying a 13B. 

 

Since I use the stock cast lower and part of the = upper cast (which I cut the cast tubes off and install my own light weight tubes) = the actually length of my tubes is 7-11 inches (adjustable - tubes inside = tubes) .  That is the length between my cut-off upper manifold (the one = with the 90 deg bend and cast tubes) and bottom of my throttle body plate.  However, The crucial distance of course is from intake port to throttle = body - not how long the tube portion itself it.    I use 1 = 1/4" dia tubes for the primary and 1 1/2" dia tubes for the = secondary.  To make an adjustable one I have a 1 3/8" dia tube over the 1 1/4 and = a 1 5/8" tube over the 1 1/2" - but of course you don't need to = do that.

 

Too large an intake tube appears to diminish the = mixture velocity and inertia and decrease the amount of mixture stuffed into = the combustion chamber, so while large intake diameters are fine for the = 9000+ rpm racers, they don't appear to offer what we need at the rpm we operate = at.

 

Here is a photo of my most recent intake and one I = have flow with for 3 years.  The blue throttle body mount is make out of a = two part polyurethane casting resin and I use a 65mm Mustang TB.  Here is a = photo.

 

 

Ed

----- Original Message ----- =

Sent: = Sunday, July 30, 2006 7:52 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Back in the saddle again!

 

Ed,

You are correct! I have the 2.85 = drive. I scraped the tangential muffler and now using spintech muffler. I = received my velocity stacks last week, so it on to rev "B" intake. By the = way how long are your runners?

 

=

Thanks,

Jason

 

=

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, July 29, = 2006 4:56 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Back in the saddle again!

 

Jason, if I recall correctly you do have the 2.85 = gear box.   You should be seeing 5800-6000 rpm static (perhaps a = bit less in that heat).  I however do not recall your prop set up but if it = is close to the 74x88 prop Tracy and I both fly with our 2.85 then it = would appear your are not getting adequate airflow into( or out of) the = engine.

 

Ed

 

 

----- Original Message ----- =

Sent: = Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:13 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Back in the saddle again!

 

Update on my airplane, I now have four flights on my = engine after replacing the seals. Last night I was up for an hour. At 5000msl = it was 28C temps stabilized at 197(water) and 188 oil. I still need more = power. I am only getting 5000rpm static which makes for very shallow climb outs. In = the air, I'm getting between 5500 and 6000 rpm at about 140mph (no wheel = pants or fairings).

 

I did an experiment with a 12" fan mounted = behind the radiator. The fan keeps the water temp under 190 on the ground, but = caused about a 10-15 degree increase in the air. So now I'm thinking about = mounting a small radiator with a fan under the engine. =

 

My next project is to rework the intake for more = static rpm.

 

 

Jason (waiting for winter or at least temps below 90 degrees)

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