X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1123132 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 22 May 2006 08:06:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-111-186.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.111.186]) by ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k4MC5YcT021133 for ; Mon, 22 May 2006 08:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000d01c67d98$1f5960d0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions from a potential rotaryphile Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 08:06:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C67D76.9802A180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C67D76.9802A180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good Luck, TJ. I have found that a lot of people just don't want to be = educated, they prefer their misperceptions. I still get people who are = convinced the rotary will never work because they have "seal problems". = Happened to be true back in '73-74 for a year or two - then the Mazda = engineers fixed the problem - but that is still what many folks = remember. I notice that the comments about the Sport Aviation article seems to = focus is on the fact that the rotaries were louder (true) and burn more = fuel (also true for those PP engines), but they didn't apparently notice = that the rotary beat the lycoming in power and speed. I mean more power = generally requires more fuel doesn't it? Just shows a basic lack on = understanding about engines in general in my opinion. I personally believe that a lot of folks just really don't want to think = they paid almost $30K for a Lycoming and a $4K rotary can beat it (note = the PowerSport rotaries are not in the $4K class {:>)). You should have = seen how deflated the Lycoming crowd was (some of which had spent = considerable $$ in "hopping" up their engines) when Tracy Crook beat = them in the Sun & Fun 100 race. You'll also notice that win did not get = any publicity to in any of the Aviation magazines - because they know = where their $$ come from. You'll also notice they then cancelled the = race event shortly thereafter - reportedly due to insurance = considerations - but we all know the REAL reason {:>). Ok, Ok, it = probably was insurance considerations and not the fact that a rotary was = winning air races, but it sounds good {:>) Sigh! I mean we know this is a Lycoming centric world - Well, that = just means more good cores for the rest of us {:>) Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas y Reina Jakits=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:24 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions from a potential rotaryphile Welcome to the club! I am frequently on the PPRuNe forum and I ran a cross a Wankel thread, = with lots of misinformation about the Rotary. At least I tried to steer them in the right direction.... http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3D226770 TJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 9:08 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions from a potential rotaryphile I'm a bit surprised hearing it came from Al Wick as he was on this = list for a while. I thought he had a better understanding of what was = going on with the rotary. But, you're right a little knowledge means = incomplete knowledge which can be dangerous. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dale Rogers=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions from a potential rotaryphile Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Clearly a person who has "heard" things about the rotary, but = does not know anything about them. Indeed. Rich was quoting Al Wick, from 5/20 posting on the = COZY_builders=20 mail list, "COZY: Fuel issues with auto conversions". A *little* knowledge is a dangerous thing. . ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Questions from a potential rotaryphile =20 In a different forum, not related specifically to engines, the = following was stated, "...Rotary is different issue. Their unusual combustion = chamber requires them to mix 2 cycle oil with each tank. If they don't their = compression seals die prematurely. Just like your boat motor mix, I don't see it = as a big deal. In addition, if they use aviation fuel, they develop = power drop on departure and have to replace all their plugs before next = flight. This happens every 20 hours. They don't have solution for this." What is the experience that you are having? Is there any truth = to this. If not true, where might this info have come from??=20 thanks, Rich -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C67D76.9802A180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good Luck, TJ.  I have = found=20 that a lot of  people just don't want to be educated, they = prefer=20 their misperceptions.  I still get people who are convinced the = rotary will=20 never work because they have "seal problems".  Happened to be true = back in=20 '73-74 for a year or two - then the Mazda engineers fixed the problem - = but that=20 is still what many folks remember.
 
I notice that the comments = about the=20 Sport Aviation article seems to  focus is on the fact that the = rotaries=20 were louder (true) and burn more fuel (also true for those PP engines), = but they=20 didn't apparently notice that the rotary beat the lycoming in power and=20 speed.  I mean more power generally requires more fuel doesn't=20 it?   Just shows a basic lack on understanding about engines = in=20 general in my opinion.
 
I personally believe that a lot = of folks=20 just really don't want to think they paid almost $30K for a Lycoming and = a $4K=20 rotary can beat it (note the PowerSport rotaries are not in the $4K = class=20 {:>)).  You should have seen how deflated the Lycoming crowd was = (some=20 of which had spent considerable $$ in "hopping" up their engines) =  when=20 Tracy Crook beat them in the Sun & Fun 100 race.  You'll also = notice=20 that win did not get any publicity to in any of the = Aviation magazines -=20 because they know where their $$ come from.  You'll also notice = they then=20 cancelled the race event shortly thereafter - reportedly due to = insurance=20 considerations - but we all know the REAL reason {:>).  Ok, Ok, = it=20 probably was insurance considerations and not the fact that a rotary was = winning=20 air races, but it sounds good {:>)
 
 
Sigh!    I mean = we know this=20 is a Lycoming centric world - Well, that just means more good cores for = the rest=20 of us {:>)
 
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thomas y=20 Reina Jakits
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 = 10:24 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Questions from a=20 potential rotaryphile

Welcome to the = club!
 
I am frequently on the PPRuNe = forum and I=20 ran a cross a Wankel thread, with lots of misinformation about the=20 Rotary.
At least I tried to steer them = in the=20 right direction....
http://ww= w.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3D226770
 
 
TJ
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 = 9:08=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Questions from=20 a potential rotaryphile

I'm a bit surprised hearing = it came from=20 Al Wick as he was on this list for a while.  I thought he had a = better=20 understanding of what was going on with the rotary.  But, = you're right=20 a little knowledge means incomplete knowledge which can be=20 dangerous.
 
Ed
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Dale = Rogers=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 = 3:35=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Questions=20 from a potential rotaryphile

Ed Anderson wrote:=20
Clearly a person who has "heard" things = about the=20 rotary, but does not know anything about=20 them.

  =20 Indeed.

   Rich was quoting Al Wick, from  = 5/20=20 posting on the COZY_builders
mail list, "COZY: Fuel issues = with auto=20 conversions".

   A *little* knowledge is a = dangerous=20 thing.


 
.
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 ARGOLDMAN@aol.com To:=20 Rotary motors in=20 aircraft Sent:=20 Sunday, May 21, 2006 7:48 AM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Questions from a potential rotaryphile

 =20
In a=20 different forum, not related specifically to engines, the = following=20 was stated,
 
"...Rotary=20 is different issue. Their unusual combustion chamber requires=20 them
to mix 2 cycle oil with each tank. If they don't their = compression seals
die prematurely. Just like your boat = motor mix, I=20 don't see it as a big
deal. In addition, if they use = aviation fuel,=20 they develop power drop on
departure and have to replace = all their=20 plugs before next flight. This
happens every 20 hours. They = don't=20 have solution for this."

What is the experience that = you are=20 having? Is there any truth to this. If not true, where might = this info=20 have come from??
 
thanks,
Rich

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C67D76.9802A180--