X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.136] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1122156 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 21 May 2006 08:44:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.136; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id q.450.12ede28 (29679) for ; Sun, 21 May 2006 08:43:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <450.12ede28.31a1ba83@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 08:43:47 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Questions from a potential rotaryphile To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1148215427" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1148215427 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/21/2006 7:49:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ARGOLDMAN@aol.com writes: In a different forum, not related specifically to engines, the following was stated, "...Rotary is different issue. Their unusual combustion chamber requires them to mix 2 cycle oil with each tank. If they don't their compression seals die prematurely. Just like your boat motor mix, I don't see it as a big deal. It is true that the rotary uses a microscopic amount of its own sump oil to lubricate its apex seals. There is a tiny pump mounted on the engine that performs this function. Some people choose to remove this pump and mix oil with the fuel, but the stock pump system works perfectly, and a change is not required. In addition, if they use aviation fuel, they develop power drop on departure and have to replace all their plugs before next flight. This happens every 20 hours. They don't have solution for this." It is true that lead fouling of automotive style spark plugs is a problem. It can appear in as little as 50 hours. The plugs are inexpensive, and the brighter folks clean or change to new plugs before there is a problem. A high energy ignition system on the leading would extend the operating hours, but even 30 hours is a lot of flying and changing plugs is so easy. The problem involves only aviation fuel, and the advantage is that you don't need aviation fuel. Any pump gas, even very low octane fuel is just fine for a non-turbo rotary engine. What is the experience that you are having? Is there any truth to this. If not true, where might this info have come from?? The number of rotary powered aircraft is increasing, so a large number of people are changing their minds about the engines. In the 60s the number of people who would ever in their lives check the oil level on a street car was growing at about the time the Mazda powered cars were first imported. So after 4 years of hauling the young ladies back and forth to college the engine in the second hand RX-3 (or whatever) would go soft, and the car would be sold. The oil level would be so low that the rotor bearings and rotor cooling would be compromised. Often, just filling the sump with oil would get another few years out of the car, but many failures also occurred. The popularity of quick oil change joints actually had an affect on rotary reliability. When the oil gets changed, even occasionally, the engine has a life span similar to a piston car engine. Like Chrysler built cars rusting out quickly, the legend lives on. It is even less of a problem in aircraft, where it is common to check the oil before each flight. Oil consumption is less than a piston aircraft engine. thanks, Rich Lynn E. Hanover -------------------------------1148215427 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 5/21/2006 7:49:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 ARGOLDMAN@aol.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000>
In a different forum, not related specifically to engines, the follow= ing=20 was stated,
 
"...Rotary is different issue. Their unusual combustion chamber requi= res=20 them
to mix 2 cycle oil with each tank. If they don't their compression= =20 seals
die prematurely. Just like your boat motor mix, I don't see it as= a=20 big
deal.
It is true that the rotary uses a microscopic amount of its= own=20 sump oil to lubricate its apex seals. There is a tiny pump mounted on the en= gine=20 that performs this function. Some people choose to remove this pump and mix=20= oil=20 with the fuel, but the stock pump system works perfectly, and a change is no= t=20 required.
 
 
In=20 addition, if they use aviation fuel, they develop power drop on
departu= re=20 and have to replace all their plugs before next flight. This
happens ev= ery=20 20 hours. They don't have solution for this."
 
It is true that lead fouling of automotive style spark plug= s is=20 a problem. It can appear in as little as 50 hours. The plugs are inexpensive= ,=20 and the brighter folks clean or change to new plugs before there is a proble= m. A=20 high energy ignition system on the leading would extend the operating hours,= but=20 even 30 hours is a lot of flying and changing plugs is so=20 easy. 
 
The problem involves only aviation fuel, and the advantage=20= is=20 that you don't need aviation fuel. Any pump gas, even very low octane fuel i= s=20 just fine for a non-turbo rotary engine.
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000>

What is the experience that you are having? Is there any truth to= =20 this. If not true, where might this info have come from??=20
The number of rotary powered aircraft is increasing, so a l= arge=20 number of people are changing their minds about the engines.=20
 
In the 60s the number of people who would ever in their liv= es=20 check the oil level on a street car was growing at about the time the Mazda=20 powered cars were first imported. So after 4 years of hauling the young ladi= es=20 back and forth to college the engine in the second hand RX-3 (or whatever) w= ould=20 go soft, and the car would be sold.
The oil level would be so low that the rotor bearings=20= and=20 rotor cooling would be compromised.
Often, just filling the sump with oil would get another few= =20 years out of the car, but many failures also occurred. The popularity of qui= ck=20 oil change joints actually had an affect on rotary reliability. When the oil= =20 gets changed, even occasionally, the engine has a life span similar to a pis= ton=20 car engine. Like Chrysler built cars rusting out quickly, the legend lives=20 on.
It is even less of a problem in aircraft, where it is commo= n to=20 check the oil before each flight.
Oil consumption is less than a piston aircraft=20 engine.
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000>
 
thanks,
Rich
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
-------------------------------1148215427--