X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.8] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1117373 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 17 May 2006 13:41:08 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.8; envelope-from=BMears9413@aol.com Received: from BMears9413@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id q.1bc.482d0c7 (15877) for ; Wed, 17 May 2006 13:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-D01 (fwm-d01.webmail.aol.com [205.188.160.193]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v109.12) with ESMTP id MAILINID74-3e05446b5ffe51; Wed, 17 May 2006 13:40:14 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:40:14 -0400 Message-Id: <8C847F01681FA4D-1A70-276C@FWM-D01.sysops.aol.com> From: bmears9413@aol.com References: Received: from 65.182.71.8 by FWM-D01.sysops.aol.com (205.188.160.193) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 17 May 2006 13:40:13 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 17385 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C847F0163F3805_1A70_29EB_FWM-D01.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net X-AOL-IP: 205.188.160.193 X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MailBlocks_8C847F0163F3805_1A70_29EB_FWM-D01.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can answer that on by experience! You better make damn sure you injection= oil to the apex seals! I've had a metering oil pump failure before, and the= friction heat is enough to warp the apex seals. And it will do it every tim= e. The good news is it doesnt loose enough compression to stop the motor fro= m running, but it aint gonna start again after you kill it. It may not even=20= idle. Thats just 1/4 mile experience. The problem may be much worse in a pla= ne trying going further than a 1/4 mile! Bob Mears =20 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Sohn To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, 17 May 2006 12:27:21 -0700 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:20 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 =20 Richard, are you saying that the metering oil nozzles that inject oil into t= he combustion chamber should have a vacuum line attached to the top opening=20= of the injector nozzle? I recall a discussion some time ago where I thought= you said that it was OK for those connections to be open to the atmosphere. =20 I would say that it is OK for them to be open to the atmosphere. The reason= to connect them to the manifold is to get filtered air, and to modulate the= differential pressure across the valve. At low throttle there would be low=20= pressure in both manifold and rotor housing. I have no idea of the full stor= y of the pressure dynamics over the throttle range. =20 If the vacuum line is disconnected, the oil being pumped into the rotor hous= ing drop by drop is not spread cross wise along the apex seal. Therefore, th= e oil will do next to nothing in regard to cooling or lubricating the apex s= eal.=20 =20 Based on experience of others, this appears to be an overstatement. Rotorie= s have run thousands of hours with no air to the nozzles. There may be some= evidence of wear patterns indicating that the tip seal travels some distanc= e (maybe 4-5=E2=80=9D) from the point of injection before the oil spreads to= the ends of the seals, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of any direct comparison w= ear with and without the air flow. Maybe some of our racing friends can hav= e some input on this. =20 Al =20 Certainly, Al, nobody seems to know how much good that top lube does, if any= . =20 =20 Richard Sohn N-2071U =20 ----------MailBlocks_8C847F0163F3805_1A70_29EB_FWM-D01.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 I can answer that on by experience! You better make damn sur= e you injection oil to the apex seals! I've had a metering oil pump failure&= nbsp;before, and the friction heat is enough to warp the apex seals. And it=20= will do it every time. The good= news is it doesnt loose enough compression to stop the motor from=20= running, but it aint gonna start again after you kill it. It ma= y not even idle. Thats just 1/4 mile experience. The problem may be much worse in a plane trying going furth= er than a 1/4 mile!
Bob M= ears
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Richar= d Sohn <unicorn@gdsys.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, 17 May 2006 12:27:21 -0700Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:

 
----- Original Message -----
F= rom: Al Gietzen
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:20 AM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:

 
Richard, are you saying that the metering oil nozzles that inject oil=20= into the combustion chamber should have a vacuum line attached to the top op= ening of the injector nozzle?  I recall a discussion some time a= go where I thought you said that it was OK for those connections to be open=20= to the atmosphere.
 
I would say that it= is OK for them to be open to the atmosphere.  The reason to connect th= em to the manifold is to get filtered air, and to modulate the differential=20= pressure across the valve. At low throttle there would be low pressure in bo= th manifold and rotor housing. I have no idea of the full story of the press= ure dynamics over the throttle range.
=  
If the vacuum line is disconnected, the oil being= pumped into the rotor housing drop by drop is not spread cross wise along t= he apex seal. Therefore, the oil will do next to nothing in regard to coolin= g or lubricating the apex seal.
 = ;
Based on experience= of others, this appears to be an overstatement.  Rotories have run= thousands of hours with no air to the nozzles.  There may be some evid= ence of wear patterns indicating that the tip seal travels some distance (ma= ybe 4-5=E2=80=9D) from the point of injection before the oil spreads to the=20= ends of the seals, but I=E2=80=99m not aware of any direct comparison wear w= ith and without the air flow.  Maybe some of our racing friends can hav= e some input on this.
 = ;
Al
 = ;
Certainly, Al, nobo= dy seems to know how much good that top lube does, if any.=
 = ;
 = ;
Richard Sohn
N-2071U
 = ;
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