X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [201.225.225.167] (HELO cwpanama.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1114338 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 15 May 2006 14:09:51 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=201.225.225.167; envelope-from=rijakits@cwpanama.net Received: from [201.224.93.110] (HELO usuarioq3efog0) by frontend1.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 67146196 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 15 May 2006 13:18:27 -0500 Message-ID: <00ab01c6784a$9a85f0a0$6e5de0c9@usuarioq3efog0> From: "Thomas y Reina Jakits" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: water pump bolts - warning Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 13:08:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A5_01C67820.AC3D1A50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01C67820.AC3D1A50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am surprised!! I thought this was common practice already!! What should you safetywire?? Everything that can cause a day to go sour, if that particular bolt lets go!!! Obviously there are some high quality bolts in that engine and frankly you have no choice to use them ( unless there is better aftermarket pieces) - housing through bolts, excentershaft nut, etc. BUT guys, remember, we are still dealing with a car manufacturers engine! They will save pennies if they can. Engine dies on the road, so what!? Engine dies in the air, then what!! Mazda will save on safetywire, boltquality, locktite wherever they can - no blame, just fact, everyone does it. However you don't see Lycontlin (Lyc - Cont - Frank) save on safetywire - if the thing stops the lawyers are going to be all over them! So for me it will be to look at everyone bolt and ask myself: a. What does it? b. Can it loosen/back-out by itself? c. What will happen if b. happens? You might say, well go overboard and safetywire everything, but then every little job you have on the engine is half a nightmare cutting wires and re-applying them again. So, that's why you want to do the a.b.c. If there is bolts/nuts that can go without wire fine. Sometimes a Pal-nut will do, if you have access to a bolt (Half the Robinson helicopter doesn't have wires, but Pal-nuts). A Rotary does vibrate, just way less than the Lyco-gang, but on a higher frequency. If it can shake loose, it will, eventually.... Basically I will replace all non-quality bolts (WP, dipstick, CAS, misc. intake/exhaust, etc.) with aviation quality bolts, even those cost half a fortune. If not available it will be the best the aftermarket has to offer, then the best the industrial hardware store has. Grade5 gets replaced with Grade8 etc. I think Lyn's procedure is more than you need. Just drill the head and chamfer. Once you are torqued down, safetywire according to A&P procedures - in a way it only can tighten itself but not loosen. Might not look as great, but saves time and it is not critical if mix some bolts (WP e.g.) Pulley-nuts might work with a Pal-nut... Exhaust also or safetywire... Hoseclamps safetywire if they are essential - if the hose stays in place, no big deal, but if the hose comes off without the clamp - safetywire! Starterbolts/buts Alternator Oilpan bolts safetywire .......?? CHECK EVERYTHING!...... TJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lehanover@aol.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 6:22 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water pump bolts - warning In a message dated 5/15/2006 1:50:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, WRJJRS@aol.com writes: Can anybody here say SAFETY WIRE?!!! Bill Jepson I was hoping somebody would say that. Torque up the bolts. Draw a line across the bolt head to indicate the correct hole vector. One at a time remove the bolts and drill and chamfer the wire holes. Reinstall the bolts, one at a time. Torque the bolts. Wire the bolts. Bolt drilling blocks available from most tool suppliers and Hot Rod shops/Catalogues. Have you thought about those two crap bolts that hold the oil pickup tube onto the engine? Shouldn't they be high quality socket head cap screws, torqued and safety wired together? Lynn E. Hanover (Quietly putting soap box away) ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01C67820.AC3D1A50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am surprised!!
 
I thought this was common practice = already!!
What should you safetywire??
Everything that can cause = a day to=20 go sour, if that particular bolt lets go!!!
Obviously there are some high quality bolts in that = engine and=20 frankly you have no choice to use them ( unless there is better = aftermarket=20 pieces) - housing through bolts, excentershaft nut, etc.
BUT guys, remember, we are = still=20 dealing with a car manufacturers engine! They will save pennies if they = can.=20 Engine dies on the road, so what!? Engine dies in the air, then=20 what!!
Mazda will save on safetywire, boltquality, locktite = wherever=20 they can - no blame, just fact, everyone does it.
However you don't see Lycontlin (Lyc - Cont - Frank) = save on=20 safetywire - if the thing stops the lawyers are going to be all over=20 them!
 
So for me it will be to look at everyone bolt and = ask=20 myself:
a. What does it?
b. Can it loosen/back-out by itself?
c. What will happen if b. happens?
 
You might say, well go overboard and safetywire=20 everything, but then every little job you have on the engine is = half a=20 nightmare cutting wires and re-applying them again.
So, that's why you want to do the = a.b.c.
If there is bolts/nuts that can go without wire = fine.=20 Sometimes a Pal-nut will do, if you have access to a bolt (Half the = Robinson=20 helicopter doesn't have wires, but Pal-nuts).
A Rotary does vibrate, = just way less=20 than the Lyco-gang, but on a higher frequency. If it can shake loose, it = will,=20 eventually....
 
Basically I will replace all non-quality bolts (WP, = dipstick,=20 CAS, misc. intake/exhaust, etc.) with aviation quality bolts, even those = cost=20 half a fortune. If not available it will be the best the aftermarket has = to=20 offer, then the best the industrial hardware store has.
Grade5 gets replaced with Grade8 etc.
 
I think Lyn's procedure is more than you need. Just = drill the=20 head and chamfer. Once you are torqued down, safetywire according to = A&P=20 procedures - in a way it only can tighten itself but not loosen. Might = not look=20 as great, but saves time and it is not critical if mix  some = bolts (WP=20 e.g.)
 
Pulley-nuts might work with a = Pal-nut...
Exhaust also or safetywire...
Hoseclamps safetywire if they are essential - if the = hose=20 stays in place, no big deal, but if the hose comes off without the clamp = -=20 safetywire!
Starterbolts/buts
Alternator
Oilpan bolts safetywire
.......??
CHECK = EVERYTHING!......
 
TJ
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lehanover@aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 6:22 = AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water = pump bolts=20 - warning

In a message dated 5/15/2006 1:50:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = WRJJRS@aol.com writes:
Can anybody here say SAFETY WIRE?!!!
Bill Jepson
I was hoping somebody would say that.
 
Torque up the bolts.
Draw a line across the bolt head to indicate the correct hole=20 vector.
One at a time remove the bolts and drill and chamfer the wire=20 holes.
Reinstall the bolts, one at a time.
Torque the bolts.
Wire the bolts.
 
Bolt drilling blocks available from most tool suppliers and Hot = Rod=20 shops/Catalogues.  
 
Have you thought about those two crap bolts that hold the oil = pickup tube=20 onto the engine?
Shouldn't they be high quality socket head cap screws, torqued = and safety=20 wired together?
 
 
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
(Quietly putting soap box=20 away) 
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