Return-Path: Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.46] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 2582293 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:42:12 -0400 Received: from user-2injp6j.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.228.211] helo=Carol) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19zSGe-0006Su-00 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:42:08 -0700 Message-ID: <005d01c37cc5$3f9b26c0$0000a398@Carol> From: "sqpilot@earthlink" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Not sure how many horses really came back Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:41:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01C37C9B.5603F1A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C37C9B.5603F1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:13 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Not sure how many horses really came back Greetings, =20 Here's my log from today. I'm not too optimistic that the next climb = will be all that great. =20 Rusty (turbo depression) =20 =20 =20 9-16-03=20 =20 I tuned the engine today, after setting the timing to the correct = point. It's now running well on both controllers. Idle is 16-17 inches = of vacuum (13-14 MAP). I had to cut the fuel injector flow down by 4-5 = steps to get in range, which seems odd, but maybe it makes sense to = someone. I set the staging point to about 19-20 inches MAP (12 inches = vacuum on the gauge, which I know to actually be 10-11 because the gauge = is crap). The staging transition is still ugly, and will continue to be = that way until I get matching injectors. I had to make the staging = point a bit on the rich side to keep it from surging. Once I got done = with the A controller, I copied A to B, and then had to touch up the = mixture just a bit across the board. It's obvious that the copy = function is working, because the ugly transition is certainly where it = should be. I ran as high as 7 psi of boost briefly, and it really = seemed strong, which is more than I can say for 0 psi. I'm going to be = surprised if I picked up any significant performance with the timing = change. =20 =20 FWIW, the rpm at 30 inches MAP was 5000 static. I'm pretty sure = that's partially stalled though, so it's worthless if it is. If it = happens to be correct, then it will be an increase in power. Only a = climb will tell. =20 =20 As a side note, the oil and water were both great during all the = ground running. Water stayed rock solid on 180, and oil made it to = maybe 190. This is running the absolute snot out of the engine under = boost. =20 =20 Unfortunately, I'm still thinking that it will take about 5 psi to get = the engine back to what a healthy NA engine would run. That means I'd = have to run that on climb from sea level, and run as much as 11 psi to = get the amount of normalization that I want. This is more boost than I = will be comfortable running, so if the next climb doesn't change my = mind, I'll probably start working on removing the turbo. 190 HP is = plenty for an RV-3, and if I really feel the need to optimize climb and = cruise, I'll have to come up with a variable pitch prop. =20 Sorry to hear you are hitting so many bumps in the road. While there = are some advantages to a turbo (high altitude, etc), I myself keep = wondering if they are worth all the time and effort and fuel = consumption. I kinda think that if we get our aircraft to fly as well as = say, Tracy and Ed Anderson, normally aspirated, and are able to do so by = the keep it simple method, that ain't all bad news. It would be nice to = just advance the throttle and just take off without worrying about = boost, map, sea level pressure, etc, etc. Plus you can knock off 35 = pounds of turbo weight....possibly helping your CG.....I had the = pleasure of riding in Tracy's plane, and if my 13b powered canard flys = anything like his RV, I will consider that a true success story, = especially with a bullet-proof, smooth engine that runs on auto fuel. = What more could one ask for in an aircraft? Loosing the turbo might not = be as bad as it sounds. I saw Fink fly his RV as well.....good = performance with the same bullet-proof smooth engine that can burn auto = fuel, and be rebuilt for less than the cost of one cylinder on a = Lycoming. Maybe we already HAVE that better mousetrap. For what it's = worth. Take care. Paul Conner ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C37C9B.5603F1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, = 2003 9:13=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Not sure = how many=20 horses really came back

Greetings,

 

Here's my log from = today.  I'm not=20 too optimistic that the next climb will be all that=20 great.

 

Rusty (turbo=20 depression)

 

 

 

9-16-03

 

I tuned the engine today, after setting the = timing to=20 the correct point.  = It=92s now=20 running well on both controllers.  Idle is 16-17 inches of = vacuum (13-14=20 MAP).  I had to cut the = fuel=20 injector flow down by 4-5 steps to get in range, which seems odd, but = maybe it=20 makes sense to someone.  = I set the=20 staging point to about 19-20 inches MAP (12 inches vacuum on the = gauge, which=20 I know to actually be 10-11 because the gauge is crap).  The staging transition is = still ugly,=20 and will continue to be that way until I get matching injectors.  I had to make the staging = point a bit=20 on the rich side to keep it from surging.  Once I got done with the A = controller,=20 I copied A to B, and then had to touch up the mixture just a bit = across the=20 board.  It=92s obvious = that the copy=20 function is working, because the ugly transition is certainly where it = should=20 be.   I ran as high as 7 psi of = boost=20 briefly, and it really seemed strong, which is more than I can say for = 0=20 psi.  I=92m going to be = surprised if=20 I picked up any significant performance with the timing change. 

 

FWIW, the rpm at 30 inches MAP was 5000 = static.  I=92m pretty sure that=92s = partially=20 stalled though, so it=92s worthless if it is.  If it happens to be correct, = then it=20 will be an increase in power. =20 Only a climb will tell.  =

 

As a side note, the oil and water were both = great=20 during all the ground running.  = Water stayed rock solid on 180, and oil made it to maybe = 190.  This is running the absolute = snot out=20 of the engine under boost. =20

 

Unfortunately, I=92m still thinking that it = will take=20 about 5 psi to get the engine back to what a healthy NA engine would = run.  That means I=92d have to run = that on=20 climb from sea level, and run as much as 11 psi to get the amount of=20 normalization that I want.  = This=20 is more boost than I will be comfortable running, so if the next climb = doesn=92t=20 change my mind, I=92ll probably start working on removing the = turbo.  190 HP is plenty for an = RV-3, and if I=20 really feel the need to optimize climb and cruise, I=92ll have to come = up with a=20 variable pitch prop.       

 

Sorry to = hear you are=20 hitting so many bumps in the road. While there are some advantages to = a turbo=20 (high altitude, etc), I myself keep wondering if they are worth all = the time=20 and effort and fuel consumption. I kinda think that if we get our = aircraft to=20 fly as well as say, Tracy and Ed Anderson, normally aspirated, and are = able to=20 do so by the keep it simple method, that ain't all bad news.  It = would be=20 nice to just advance the throttle and just take off without worrying = about=20 boost, map, sea level pressure, etc, etc.  Plus you can knock off = 35=20 pounds of turbo weight....possibly helping your CG.....I had the = pleasure of=20 riding in Tracy's plane, and if my 13b powered canard flys anything = like his=20 RV, I will consider that a true success story, especially with a = bullet-proof,=20 smooth engine that runs on auto fuel.  What more could one ask = for in an=20 aircraft? Loosing the turbo might not be as bad as it sounds. I saw = Fink fly=20 his RV as well.....good performance with the same bullet-proof smooth = engine=20 that can burn auto fuel, and be rebuilt for less than the cost of one = cylinder=20 on a Lycoming.  Maybe we already HAVE that better = mousetrap.  For=20 what it's worth.  Take care. Paul=20 = Conner

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