X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [201.225.225.168] (HELO cwpanama.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.8) with ESMTP id 975962 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 09 Feb 2006 11:26:00 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=201.225.225.168; envelope-from=rijakits@cwpanama.net Received: from [201.224.93.110] (HELO usuarioq3efog0) by frontend2.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 58582167 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 09 Feb 2006 11:47:10 -0500 Message-ID: <003c01c62d95$7cbaed00$6e5de0c9@usuarioq3efog0> From: "rijakits" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Six port bolt-on manfold progress (was: RX-8) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:25:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01C62D6B.93583560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C62D6B.93583560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay Lynn, you need to slow down!! If you want to take the wings with you on your "to be BD-4" you need let go on the racing with your engines :)) If I P-Port my engine (no racing-factory-P-Port housings...) can't I "adjust" timing so that it does make sense with a turbo? P-Port just seems so much simpler on everything, especially the intake manifold, besides flow should be way better than with anything side-housing. I know the horror stories about bad idle/etc. with P-Ports, but most forget that these stories are about all-out-racing equipment. If I am not wrong the original NSU-car engines where P-Ports and idled just fine. So I (wild)guess it is the same like with piston engines, all depends on application and adjusting valvetiming (ports) accordingly..... Correct me please, as I am still all the way down on the learning curve! TJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lehanover@aol.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Six port bolt-on manfold progress (was: RX-8) In a message dated 2/9/2006 9:50:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, echristley@nc.rr.com writes: Even with perfectly balanced or weightless rotors, wouldn't the problem with 9000RPM be the centrifugal pressure of the apex seals on the rotor housings? Can they stand that sort of continuous workload, or would it just require pumping more oil into the chamber? -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o www.ernest.isa-geek.org | The stock apex seals should hold up fine. When in doubt install Tracy's seals, or go all the way downtown and spring for the ceramic seals. Less drag, even with 2 springs, and no detectable weight. You have to pick one up to believe it. The first thing you will notice once you feel visits to 9,000 RPM are more fun, Is a shine around the front end of the rear main bearing. This is the crank flex allowing the shaft to touch the overly right through the oil film. I scrape a bit off with a blade and shine the bearings with 600 silicone carbide paper in solvent. Next will be the corner seals hanging up in the holes and causing power loss that comes and goes. This is the crank flexing more, and allowing the tips of the rotors to touch the iron. The upset may be momentary or permanent on the first touch. Cutting .015" off of the rotor sides outboard of the oil scraper grooves will prevent that. Go slow. Deburr the corner seal holes and side seal grooves when done. The additional BTUs per second will be way more than your cooling system can deal with, so add a bunch of oil cooling just to start. If you plan to turbo anyway, forget the Pport. Way too much port timing for a boosted engine. Use a controller with a knock detecter that can snatch away ignition advance on the first ping. Use the racing bearings all around. Use at least 100 PSI of name brand synthetic racing oil. I use 40 wt Redline. This will be the limit on stress for the stock pump, so I would scrap it and the chain at annual, or go to an external racing pump. With water spray on the intercooler and oil cooler, you should be able to leave Sun&Fun in the vertical. Don't forget fuel delivery and oil pickup location may be a problem. Once up, control cooling with the throttle. Lynn E. Hanover ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C62D6B.93583560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay Lynn,
 
you need to slow down!! If you want to take the = wings with you=20 on your "to be BD-4" you need let go on the racing with your engines=20 :))
 
If I P-Port my engine (no racing-factory-P-Port = housings...)=20 can't I "adjust" timing so that it does make sense with a = turbo?
P-Port just seems so much simpler on everything, = especially=20 the intake manifold, besides flow should be way better than with = anything=20 side-housing.
I know the horror stories about bad idle/etc. with = P-Ports,=20 but most forget that these stories are about all-out-racing=20 equipment.
If I am not wrong the original NSU-car engines where = P-Ports=20 and idled just fine. So I (wild)guess it is the same like with piston = engines,=20 all depends on application and adjusting valvetiming (ports)=20 accordingly.....
 
Correct me please, as I am still all the way down on = the=20 learning curve!
 
TJ
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lehanover@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 09, = 2006 11:04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Six = port bolt-on=20 manfold progress (was: RX-8)

In a message dated 2/9/2006 9:50:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, echristley@nc.rr.com = writes:
Even=20 with perfectly balanced or weightless rotors, wouldn't the problem =
with=20 9000RPM be the centrifugal pressure of the apex seals on the rotor=20
housings?  Can they stand that sort of continuous workload, = or=20 would it
just require pumping more oil into the = chamber?

--=20
         ,|"|"|,      =  =20        Ernest Christley    =20 |
----=3D=3D=3D<{{(oQo)}}>=3D=3D=3D----     = Dyke Delta=20 Builder    |
        o|  = d =20 |o          www.ernest.isa-geek.org =20 |
The stock apex seals should hold up fine. When in doubt install = Tracy's=20 seals, or go all the way downtown and spring for the ceramic seals. = Less drag,=20 even with 2 springs, and no detectable weight. You have to pick one up = to=20 believe it.
 
The first thing you will notice once you feel visits to 9,000 RPM = are=20 more fun, Is a shine around the front end of the rear main bearing. = This is=20 the crank flex allowing the shaft to touch the overly right through = the oil=20 film. I scrape a bit off with a blade and shine the bearings with 600 = silicone=20 carbide paper in solvent.
 
Next will be the corner seals hanging up in the holes and causing = power=20 loss that comes and goes. This is the crank flexing more, and allowing = the=20 tips of the rotors to touch the iron. The upset may be momentary or = permanent=20 on the first touch. Cutting .015" off of the rotor sides outboard of = the oil=20 scraper grooves will prevent that. Go slow. Deburr the corner seal = holes and=20 side seal grooves when done.
 
The additional BTUs per second will be way more than your cooling = system=20 can deal with, so add a bunch of oil cooling just to start.
 
If you plan to turbo anyway, forget the Pport. Way too much port = timing=20 for a boosted engine.
Use a controller with a knock detecter that can snatch away = ignition=20 advance on the first ping.
 
Use the racing bearings all around.
 
Use at least 100 PSI of name brand synthetic racing oil. I use 40 = wt=20 Redline.
 
This will be the limit on stress for the stock pump, so I would = scrap it=20 and the chain at annual, or go to an external racing pump.
 
With water spray on the intercooler and oil cooler, you should be = able to=20 leave Sun&Fun in the vertical.  Don't forget fuel delivery = and oil=20 pickup location may be a problem.
 
Once up, control cooling with the throttle.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
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