X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net ([166.102.165.166] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.4) with ESMTP id 882813 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:38:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=166.102.165.166; envelope-from=montyr2157@alltel.net Received: from Thorstwin ([4.226.237.26]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20051215043732.IHSR8731.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@Thorstwin> for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:37:32 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c60131$45e88750$1aede204@Thorstwin> From: "Monty Roberts" To: Subject: flyrotary_Web_Archive Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:36:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C600FE.E0044FF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C600FE.E0044FF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No distributor is needed. The MSD 6T for dirt circle track service is what we started with, but = switched to the 6AL because the rev chip plugs into the side of the main = box, instead of a secondary box with a cannon plug. The 6T is potted for = strength is the other difference. If the funds are available to have a 4 cylinder Mag on the trailing = plugs, then I would rig up a drive for any real aircraft Mag and grind = off two of the points cam lobes and spin the Mag at crank speed with a = little toothed belt. The trailing must be distributed because one = trailing chamber is mixture laden and is exposed to the plug when the = other is firing.=20 Lost spark on the leading is just fine. I would trigger the leading MSD = from a disc or reluctor on the crank pulley. I used the pickup from any = Chrysler distributor. They are available in any parts house for about = $4.00. I drilled off the rivet heads and flipped the coil around so the = mounting holes are out in the open. I use brass screws from the hobby = shop to replace the rivets, so as not to short out the flux field. If = you rev it up and see the timing retard a bit, just reverse the wires = from the pickup coil. You want to trigger on the flat front of the spike = so the reluctor will be just a hair past dead in front of the reluctor. = Easy to set up that way.=20 If you TIG the magnet side of the pickup coil to a small steel plate = with slotted mounting holes you can move the timing around a bit and = control reluctor clearance. A crank triggered system is so stable that you will think the timing = light looks like a flashlight shining on a stopped engine. There will be two reluctors on the crank pulley, and one pickup coil to = drive the MSD. The MSD output will be driving a double ended coil, with = one coil wire going to each leading plug. I think MSD has a coil just = for this type of installation. Use only an MSD approved coil, or coils = if you want one for each plug. The MSD will incinerate some of them. The = coil primary will be running at 400 volts instead of 12.=20 Use inductive coil wire for the run to the plugs. Don't get near any = plugs or plug wire or boots while on or running. The MSD will fire once = when you turn it on. And once when you shut it off. So the prop may move = with surprising authority when the switch is turned on. So yell clear = before touching the switch. No curves at all. Just 22 to 24 degrees fixed, is fine for up to 9,000 = RPM. It will start easy, idle and run fine at anything between 20 and 27 = degrees for a 13B. Now, think about this. If you have an old fashioned primer pump, rigged = up to inject into the central manifold (in front of the throttle body). = you could loose all of the electric power, and still come home pumping = the primer and running on the Mag.=20 This is my cooling system for whoever asked about it. Lynn E. Hanover No need to caution me on the plug wires......I am experienced in that = department. Nothing like the sensation of your body spasming rythmically = to the firing of a V8 while feeling as though you are being hit in the = back of the head with a tire iron (repeatedly) while being able to do = absolutely nothing about it. Truly a peculiar sensation I am not eager = to repeat. I was sore all over for a week after that. Still not sure = exactly how I got loose from that damn thing. Actually I was thinking about using a single cylinder motor cycle type = of magneto directly on the crank for the trailing plugs. At first I was = going to use a snow mobile type (I have a few laying around) but then I = realized you couldn't use waste spark on the trailing plugs &#%*$!=20 I would just add another coil and ignition pick up to the motorcycle = unit 180 deg out of phase. If I was really ambitious I could even add a = couple lighting coils and have a (weak) back up to the belt driven = alternator. Probably I am not that ambitious since the battery gives you = some reserve if an alternator fails. If the battery fails you are sol = either way...but the engine keeps running.=20 reasons for the motorcycle mag: 1) cheap 2) no distribution problems, each plug has it's own coil and wire. 3.) no high altitude arcing. 4.) cheap For fuel, I was thinking about using a kinsler style fuel injection. = Should be relatively easy with the rotarys linear power curve. No = falling off on the top end means you don't need a high speed bypass = circuit. Should be able to control the mixture with the barrel valve. Of = course it will not be as precise or automatic as EFI. Should be just as = good in cruise once you get everything dialed in which is where it = counts anyway. The big benefit is I could disconnect the battery and the = engine would loose some rpm, but it would keep running.=20 Proper shut down procedure (using the fuel shutoff) should prevent the = chance of firing when switching on the ignition (still should yell clear = before touching the switch, if it jumps pilot must wear a hair shirt for = a week for failure to follow shutdown procedure) Motor arrives tomorrow. Monty ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C600FE.E0044FF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No distributor is=20 needed.
The MSD 6T for dirt = circle track=20 service is what we started with, but switched to the 6AL because the rev = chip=20 plugs into the side of the main box, instead of a secondary box with a = cannon=20 plug. The 6T is potted for strength is the other = difference.
 
If the funds are = available to have a=20 4 cylinder Mag on the trailing plugs, then I would rig up a drive for = any real=20 aircraft Mag and grind off two of the points cam lobes and spin the Mag=20 at crank speed with a little toothed belt. The trailing must = be=20 distributed because one trailing chamber is mixture laden and is = exposed to=20 the plug when the other is firing.
 
Lost spark on the = leading is just=20 fine. I would trigger the leading MSD from a disc or reluctor on the = crank=20 pulley. I used the pickup from any Chrysler distributor. They are = available in=20 any parts house for about $4.00. I drilled off the rivet heads and = flipped the=20 coil around so the mounting holes are out in the open. I use brass = screws from=20 the hobby shop to replace the rivets, so as not to short out the flux = field. If=20 you rev it up and see the timing retard a bit, just reverse the wires = from the=20 pickup coil. You want to trigger on the flat front of the spike so the = reluctor=20 will be just a hair past dead in front of the reluctor. Easy to set up = that way.=20
If you TIG the magnet = side of the=20 pickup coil to a small steel plate with slotted mounting holes you can = move the=20 timing around a bit and control reluctor clearance.
 
A crank triggered = system is so stable=20 that you will think the timing light looks like a flashlight shining on = a=20 stopped engine.
 
There will be two = reluctors on the=20 crank pulley, and one pickup coil to drive the MSD. The MSD output will = be=20 driving a double ended coil, with one coil wire going to each leading = plug.=20 I think MSD has a coil just for this type of = installation. Use=20 only an MSD approved coil, or coils if you want one for each plug. The = MSD will=20 incinerate some of them. The coil primary will be running at 400 volts = instead=20 of 12.
 
Use inductive coil wire = for the run=20 to the plugs. Don't get near any plugs or plug wire or boots while on or = running. The MSD will fire once when you turn it on. And once when you = shut it=20 off. So the prop may move with surprising authority when the switch is = turned=20 on. So yell clear before touching the switch.
 
No curves at all. Just = 22 to 24=20 degrees fixed, is fine for up to 9,000 RPM. It will start easy, idle and = run=20 fine at anything between 20 and 27 degrees for a 13B.
 
Now, think about this. = If you have an=20 old fashioned primer pump, rigged up to inject into the central manifold = (in=20 front of the throttle body). you could loose all of the electric power, = and=20 still come home pumping the primer and running on the = Mag. 
 
This is my cooling = system for whoever=20 asked about it.
 
Lynn E. = Hanover
 
No need to caution me on the plug = wires......I am=20 experienced in that department. Nothing like the sensation of your body = spasming=20 rythmically to the firing of a V8 while feeling as though you are being = hit in=20 the back of the head with a tire iron (repeatedly) while being able to = do=20 absolutely nothing about it. Truly a peculiar sensation I am = not eager=20 to repeat. I was sore all over for a week after that. Still not = sure=20 exactly how I got loose from that damn thing.
 
Actually I was thinking about using a = single=20 cylinder motor cycle type of magneto directly on the crank for the = trailing=20 plugs. At first I was going to use a snow mobile type (I have a few = laying=20 around) but then I realized you couldn't use waste spark on the = trailing=20 plugs &#%*$!
 
I would just add another coil and = ignition pick up=20 to the motorcycle unit 180 deg out of phase. If I was really ambitious I = could=20 even add a couple lighting coils and have a (weak) back up to the = belt=20 driven alternator. Probably I am not that ambitious since the = battery=20 gives you some reserve if an alternator fails. If the battery fails you = are sol=20 either way...but the engine keeps running.
 
reasons for the motorcycle = mag:
 
1) cheap
 
2) no distribution problems, each plug = has it's own=20 coil and wire.
 
3.) no high altitude = arcing.
 
4.) cheap
 
For fuel, I was thinking about using a = kinsler=20 style fuel injection. Should be relatively easy with the rotarys linear = power=20 curve. No falling off on the top end means you don't need a high speed = bypass=20 circuit. Should be able to control the mixture with the barrel valve. Of = course=20 it will not be as precise or automatic as EFI. Should be just as good in = cruise=20 once you get everything dialed in which is where it counts anyway. = The big=20 benefit is I could disconnect the battery and the engine would = loose some=20 rpm, but it would keep running.
 
Proper shut down procedure (using = the fuel=20 shutoff) should prevent the chance of firing when switching on the = ignition=20 (still should yell clear before touching the switch, if it jumps pilot = must wear=20 a hair shirt for a week for failure to follow shutdown = procedure)
 
Motor arrives tomorrow.
 
Monty
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