Return-Path: Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.115] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 2571083 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:32:18 -0400 Received: from unknown (180.birmingham-05-10rs.al.dial-access.att.net[12.86.96.180]) by mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2003090800321311100mqmb7e>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:32:13 +0000 Message-ID: <003601c3759f$6d38e180$b460560c@unknown> From: "Michael D. Callahan" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Howe oil/water coolers are history Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 19:23:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01C37575.83257780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C37575.83257780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageRussell, I have a HUGE Setrab cooler that I bought from Neil K. for my = project. If you just want to test it before doing any drastic = modifications, I'll be glad to let you borrow it for a while. It if = works, you can get an identical one from them. My project is at a = standstill right now, so it just laying around the shop, anyway. Mike = C. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 8:58 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Howe oil/water coolers are history Greetings, I installed a Tee fitting on the oil outlet of the filter, so I could = measure the oil temp after the coolers, as it enters the engine. Best = I can tell, the coolers do nothing, or at least nothing much. I took = the plane for a short flight, and the oil temp hit 240 by the time I got = to 2000 ft. This is at a much higher power than before, so it might be = cooler than what I would have been measuring in the pan, but it's still = completely unacceptable. =20 =20 I found that 12 degrees of pitch on the prop is probably not quite = enough. I ran 6300 rpm on climb at about 110 mph. The plane still = doesn't seem like it's climbing all that well, but I think that's = deceiving. It sure pins you back in the seat on departure. = Unfortunately, I didn't get any VSI reading from the anywhere map = software. It just sort of wallowed around at completely bogus numbers. = =20 =20 The plane certainly has the power to bring people out of their = hangers. Nothing like 6300 rpm, and 3 psi of boost on an open turbo = during departure :-) People on the ground said it sounded like it was = making 500 HP, and I told them it was closer to 210 HP if I had to = guess. Unfortunately, the flight was followed by perhaps the worst = landing of my life. I'm going to start wheel landing this thing, = because I just can't quit doing a perfect full stall landing 3 ft off = the ground. There's a fine line between landing, and accident. =20 Not sure what to do now, but clearly, the Howe oil/water heat = exchangers have flown their last flight. Here are the options as I see = them: 1- Since I sized the current radiator to cool the water, and oil, and = I know that it has excess capacity, I could add a real oil/water heat = exchanger. The downside is that it would be another heavy item to = worsen my forward CG, not to mention the fact that it's expensive and = not guaranteed to work. It also means I have to keep my big radiator, = which is the main reason the cowl is so ugly. The good part would be = that it could be put inside the big ugly cowl with relatively little = difficulty, and I could press on with flying the plane. =20 2- I could add an oil/air cooler, and keep my current oversize = radiator and cowl. I have a 2nd gen cooler on hand, and could put it in = the right cheek, or perhaps above, or below the current radiator. Below = would be better, but I can't get the hoses to it, so it would probably = have to be above. The negative of course is keeping the oversize = radiator, for no good reason. The only positive is that I could = continue to fly the plane for now, without major downtime. =20 3- Finally, I could add an air/oil cooler, and replace the current = radiator with something smaller. Of course doing this would mean = re-doing the bottom cowl, which would also make me want to re-do the top = cowl, which means a new intake to get rid of the bump, etc. This option = would almost require me to pull the wings off, and move the plane back = home. That isn't an appealing idea at the moment. =20 Has anyone seen an air/oil cooler that has a large frontal area, and = is fairly thin? I'd be interested in something that I could put in = front of the radiator, sort of like an air conditioning condenser coil = on a car. Hmmmm :-) Cheers, Rusty (not sure when I'll fly again)=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C37575.83257780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Russell,
    I have a HUGE Setrab cooler that = I bought=20 from Neil K. for my project. If you just want to test it before doing=20 any drastic modifications, I'll be glad to let you borrow it for a = while.=20 It if works, you can get an identical one from them. My project is at a=20 standstill right now, so it just laying around the shop, anyway.  = Mike=20 C.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: Saturday, September 06, = 2003 8:58=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Howe = oil/water=20 coolers are history

Greetings,
 

I = installed a Tee fitting on the oil outlet of the = filter, so=20 I could measure the oil temp after the coolers, as it enters the = engine.   Best I can tell, the = coolers do=20 nothing, or at least nothing much. =20 I took the plane for a short flight, and the oil temp hit 240 = by the=20 time I got to 2000 ft.  = This is at=20 a much higher power than before, so it might be cooler than what I = would have=20 been measuring in the pan, but it=92s still completely unacceptable. 

 

I found that=20 12 degrees of pitch on the prop is probably not quite enough.  I ran 6300 rpm on climb at = about 110=20 mph.  The plane still = doesn=92t seem=20 like it=92s climbing all that well, but I think that=92s = deceiving.  It sure pins you back in the = seat on=20 departure.  = Unfortunately, I=20 didn=92t get any VSI reading from the anywhere map software.  It just sort of wallowed = around at=20 completely bogus numbers.  =20

 

The plane=20 certainly has the power to bring people out of their hangers.  Nothing like 6300 rpm, and 3 = psi of=20 boost on an open turbo during departure :-) =20 People on the ground said it sounded like it was making 500 HP, = and I=20 told them it was closer to 210 HP if I had to guess.   Unfortunately, the = flight was=20 followed by perhaps the worst landing of my life.  I=92m going to start wheel = landing this=20 thing, because I just can=92t quit doing a perfect full stall landing = 3 ft off=20 the ground.  There=92s a = fine line=20 between landing, and accident.

 

Not sure what to do = now, but=20 clearly, the Howe oil/water heat exchangers have flown their last = flight.   Here are the options as I see=20 them:

 

1- = Since I sized the current radiator to cool = the water,=20 and oil, and I know that it has excess capacity, I could add a real = oil/water=20 heat exchanger.  The downside is that it would be another heavy = item to=20 worsen my forward CG, not to mention the fact that it's expensive and = not=20 guaranteed to work.  It also means I have to keep my big = radiator, which=20 is the main reason the cowl is so ugly.  The good part would be = that it=20 could be put inside the big ugly cowl with relatively little = difficulty, and I=20 could press on with flying the plane.  =

 

2- I = could add an=20 oil/air cooler, and keep my current oversize radiator and cowl.  = I have a=20 2nd gen cooler on hand, and could put it in the right cheek, or = perhaps above,=20 or below the current radiator.  Below would be better, but I = can't get=20 the hoses to it, so it would probably have to be above.  The = negative of=20 course is keeping the oversize radiator, for no good = reason.  The=20 only positive is that I could continue to fly the plane for now, = without major=20 downtime.  

 

3- = Finally, I could=20 add an air/oil cooler, and replace the current radiator with something = smaller.  Of course doing this would mean re-doing the bottom = cowl,=20 which would also make me want to re-do the top = cowl, which=20 means a new intake to get rid of the bump, etc.  This option = would=20 almost require me to pull the wings off, and move the plane = back=20 home.  That isn't an appealing idea at the=20 moment.  

 

Has = anyone seen=20 an air/oil cooler that has a large frontal area, and is fairly=20 thin?  I'd be interested in something that I could put in front = of the=20 radiator, sort of like an air conditioning condenser coil on a = car. =20 Hmmmm :-)

 

Cheers,

Rusty = (not sure when=20 I'll fly again) 

<= /DIV>
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C37575.83257780--