X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.4] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c2) with ESMTP id 713365 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:57:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.4; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r4.1.) id q.a1.6686340b (15863) for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M05 (mblk-m05.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.38]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID62-3df7431e108424b; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:56:20 -0400 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:56:20 -0400 Message-Id: <8C78144F3069591-D44-107E3@MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> From: wrjjrs@aol.com References: Received: from 66.127.99.234 by MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.38) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:56:19 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.13964 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Alternative fuel Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C78144F2942541_D44_F93A_MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.38 X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MailBlocks_8C78144F2942541_D44_F93A_MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -----Original Message----- From: Denny To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:44:55 -0500 Subject: [FlyRotary] Alternative fuel I have been risking my luck posting an off topic thread on the canard list regarding alternative fuel and thought I should spread my sins around and pass it on to you folks on this list as well. I am also very interested to here all your thoughts on using this stuff in a rotary. I was doing some research on E-85 an 85% ethanol based fuel substitute being promoted here in the Midwest and sent an email to one of the study groups asking for any info regarding a replacement for 100LL. I will paste their response as it is very interesting. Denny Denny, These comments ignore two vital items. First: All alcohol fuels suffer a mileage penalty compared to gasoline. This is true of many alternate fuels. BTU's per pound just aren't there. The engine may run fine, but will suffer a mileage penalty of 30-50% depending on how well the engine is tuned for alcohol. Rotaries are very tolerant of low-octane fuels, but suffer even bigger on mileage.(compression ratio limited I think) Second: Alcohol will attack many composite surfaces including laminates. (fiberglass and Carbon-fiber) The solvent aspect may far outweigh the BTU's/pound problem. Different solvents attack different items. Rather obvious but this simple test will show you the difference. Take a PERMANENT sharpie marker and on a piece of aluminum make a couple of marks. Let them dry and then take a petroleum product and try to remove one of the marks. I have found even strong solvents (like lacquer thinner) won't touch the stuff. Get some 90% alcohol the common drugstore stuff and it will remove the marks almost instantly. Unfortunately it only takes a while longer to dissolve your fiberglass wing! There has been several long discussions about these problems. Gasahol 20% is one of the worst offenders, even worse than straight alcohol. Bill Jepson Bill Jepson ----------MailBlocks_8C78144F2942541_D44_F93A_MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

-----Original Message-----
From: Denny <dennymortensen@cableone.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:44:55 -0500
Subject: [FlyRotary] Alternative fuel

I have been risking my luck posting an off topic thread on the canard list regarding alternative fuel and thought I should spread my sins around and pass it on to you folks on this list as well. I am also very interested to here all your thoughts on using this stuff in a rotary. I was doing some research on E-85 an 85% ethanol based fuel substitute being promoted here in the Midwest and sent an email to one of the study groups asking for any info regarding a replacement for 100LL. I will paste their response as it is very interesting.

Denny

Denny,

These comments ignore two vital items. First: All alcohol fuels suffer a mileage penalty compared to gasoline. This is true of many alternate fuels. BTU's per pound just aren't there. The engine may run fine, but will suffer a mileage penalty of 30-50% depending on how well the engine is tuned for alcohol. Rotaries are very tolerant of low-octane fuels, but suffer even bigger on mileage.(compression ratio limited I think)

Second: Alcohol will attack many composite surfaces including laminates. (fiberglass and Carbon-fiber) The solvent aspect may far outweigh the BTU's/pound problem. Different solvents attack different items. Rather obvious but this simple test will show you the difference. Take a PERMANENT sharpie marker and on a piece of aluminum make a couple of marks. Let them dry and then take a petroleum product and try to remove one of the marks. I have found even strong solvents (like lacquer thinner) won't touch the stuff. Get some 90% alcohol the common drugstore stuff and it will remove the marks almost instantly. Unfortunately it only takes a while longer to dissolve your fiberglass wing! There has been several long discussions about these problems. Gasahol 20% is one of the worst offenders, even worse than straight alcohol.

Bill Jepson

Bill Jepson

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