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From: "Michael Burke" <mburke@southernphone.com.au>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fire extinguishers
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:05:05 +1000
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Hi Larry,
I was thinking of the new streamline cowls that has one large opening at the
six o clock position. With the cooling rads slung under the engine, they can
be ducted through to the exit cowl at the rear. My idea, (probably many ways
to do it) would be to take the air for the engine compartment through an
opening at the top of the duct just inside the duct inlet. This opening
could then be controlled by a seperate flap, actuated from the cabin by a
push/pull cable that can be locked in both positions. I would imagine this
opening would not have to be very big, and if positioned properly should not
interfere with air to the cooling rads. It would give one the ability to
block inlet air to the engine without affecting the rads. The rads ducting
would have to be pretty airtight as would the cowling around the spinner.
That's the approach I'll be taking FWIW.
Michael Burke.
Australia.

Larry,
If you block both intake and outlet, the fire should die or be reduced to
nothing. Fire extinguisher on top will put it down.

On Aug 24, 2005, at 1:43 PM, Lawrence E Mac Donald wrote:


As of yet, no one has come up with the notion of a
lever (cable) operated set of doors that would block
the air intakes of the cowling so that a fire
extinguisher would work.
Or is that a bad idea ?
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester N.Y.
Do not archive


On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:42:29 +1000 "Michael Burke"
<mburke@southernphone.com.au> writes:


the only way to keep the fire out is to keep the air out
being able to shut the cooling air flow, at the exit or intake will


help a
lot.

I'm trying to put this in perspective.
Assuming no way to shut off the intake air, is firing a halon
extinguisher
in flight going to have ANY worthwhile impact on an engine fire?
Keep in
mind that the fibreglass cowl is likely to be breached early on,
thus any
control of airflow is lost. I'm beginning to think that the most
important
issues here are detection, and removal of the source (fuel) and that
an
extinguisher would be useful to save the plane once landed, but
worthless
(and wasted) if used while airborne.

Thinking of fire makes me glad I built a pusher.
John

Yes John, early detection is vital so a heat sensor, naked flame
detector is
vital as is an ambient under cowl temp sensor. First one will detect
the
fire, and the second one will tell you how hot things are getting,
and most
important tell you when the fire has gone out.
    The very best strategy is in aircraft design. You need cowl
flaps for
BOTH inlet and air outlet points, so that you have total control of
the
airflow through the cowl. There are two main reasons for this.
1) If you can control the air flow, you CAN control the fire, you
starve it.
Believe me it works. Why do commercial kitchens have fire blankets.
2) When you fire off your halon extinguisher, you want to hold that
cloud of
halon under the cowl for as long as possible. If there is no air
flow it
ain't going any where fast, and secondly and most importantly as
long as you
have that halon cloud under the cowl, there is a very low
probability of
re-ignition. this can buy you very valuable time to find a safe
landing
area.
    Other design factors are, a decent size drip tray and hear
barrier
between the fuel rail and the exhaust port outlets. Don't allow fuel
to drip
or spray onto a hot exhaust. Second, shield the exhaust pipe/s from
shooting
a hot flame onto any fibreglass surface. Easier said than done I
know, but
if it can be done it should. Otherwise experiment with industrial
fire proof
matting on the inside surfaces of your cowl.
    An extinguisher that you can control, and that has enough
reserve so
that you can fire off 50% to 60% initially, and then two or three
bursts
three or four minutes apart. This tops up the level of halon under
the cowl,
and buys you very valuable time.
    Fires can be managed, but like everything else, its a lot easier
if you
design for them in the first place, and have a sound fire drill to
put into
action.
Safe flying guys
Michael Burke
Australia


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