X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.102] (HELO ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.5) with ESMTP id 1020944 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:00:07 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.102; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-065-188-083-049.carolina.res.rr.com [65.188.83.49]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j5ONxKY5029149 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003f01c57918$beb20180$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:59:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Yes, I am aware of that all stainless steel braided lines have a rubber, Teflon or other polymer to actually provide the fluid sealing. However, there are stainless steel braided lines which are designed as brake lines - therefore, reasonable to assume their inner stuff can stand a bit of heat. In any case, I believe you would get some warning (mushy brakes/leaks, etc) from a failing/leaking stainless steel braided brake line. The aluminum line provided no warning until a second or so before it failed completely. I'll stick with the stainless steel braided brake line - I replace the left aluminum tube brake line back several years ago when I accidentally drilled into the aluminum tube. Just wished I had taken the time to replace the right one as well. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Carter" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:08 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos > Re "stainless steel braided line", Ed: The stuff inside the "stainless > steel braid" ain't "steel" - it's rubber and/or teflon tubing - stuff that > will melt from heat soaking from hot calipers back into hose. > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Anderson" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:47 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos > > >> No Marc, >> >> The plans call for aluminum tubing all the way to the caliper fitting. > The >> design does call for a "Loop" around the landing gear rod to provide for > the >> aluminum line to flex as the caliper moves in and out - mine had this > loop. >> However, giving the poor fatigue characteristics of Aluminum, I think a >> flexible line is the only way to go. Stainless steel braided line has my >> vote. However to be fair, Van has hundreds if not thousands of RVs > flying >> with this set up. Bill, mentioned an RV-8 transiting Thailand having a >> similar brake fire recently and I have heard of others - but not many. > Its >> "too many" when it happens to you {:>) >> >> Its a pretty helpless feeling to exit the side of the runway and only be >> along for the ride {:>). My first schedule refueling stop was at >> Gunntersville, Al which has its runway running out into a lake - sure >> glad > I >> never got that far as you can imagine. >> >> Ed >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:33 PM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos >> >> >> > Ed, >> > Almost all certified installations have a flexible line section at the >> > wheel to connect from the leg al tubing to the wheel brake puck assy. > Did >> > you have that? >> > Marc Wiese >> >> >> >> From: "Ed Anderson" >> >> Date: 2005/06/24 Fri AM 10:21:43 EDT >> >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos >> >> >> >> Yes, John - luck and a quick acting nephew {:>). The only answer I >> >> can >> >> come up with is that the aluminum line suffered a fatigue fracture > which >> >> weakened the tube and the hydraulic pressure finally blew out the > chunk. >> >> The line has a loop to provide flexing as the caliper moves in and > out - >> >> but, flexing aluminum is not know for a long life. In all fairness, >> >> there are many RVs flying with this configuration - so the break might > be >> >> attributed to my installation (stressing the line when I put the loop > in >> >> it), material weakness, some damage I did not notice, etc. Had over > 300 >> >> landings before the failure. >> >> >> >> Ed >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: John Slade >> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:09 AM >> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos >> >> >> >> >> >> Wow, Ed! >> >> You're luck the airplane wasn't consumed. >> >> My question - how did that big chunk get blown out of the brake >> >> line? >> >> Regards, >> >> John >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft >> >> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson >> >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:58 AM >> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Brake Line Incident Photos >> >> >> >> >> >> For those interested (and may not have seen them) , here are a few >> >> photos of my brake line fire incident. >> >> >> >> Big chunk got blown out of brake line as can be seen from >> >> Brakelines.jpg photo. Effect of resin burning seen on wheel pant > photos. >> >> Once the line broke, the next time I depressed the brake pedal, a >> >> fireball from the wheel to over the wing resulted from spraying the >> >> hydraulic fluid over the hot brake assembly. The flash point of the >> >> fluid is only 240F! I am going to investigate some stuff with a bit >> >> higher flash point {:>) >> >> >> >> >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> Ed Anderson >> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> >> Matthews, NC >> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >> >> >> > >> >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> >> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> > > > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html