X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.65] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 933142 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 May 2005 00:44:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.65; envelope-from=sqpilot@bellsouth.net Received: from paul52u7f5qyav ([209.214.45.48]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with SMTP id <20050505044350.UGWM2434.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@paul52u7f5qyav> for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 00:43:50 -0400 Message-ID: <020d01c5512d$0558a1c0$302dd6d1@paul52u7f5qyav> From: "Paul" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pumps/forced landing Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 23:43:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_020A_01C55103.1BABE8D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_020A_01C55103.1BABE8D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Kelly....the only problem I see here is that there is a benefit to = having the ECU turn off the fuel pump if it detects no spark. This would = prevent the engine from flooding. If the fuel pump kept pumping fuel = under high pressure, either the injectors dumping fuel into the engine, = (or fuel leaking by the injectors if the injectors are no longer firing) = could make it difficult to restart once you have regained = ignition/spark. Just one more thought. Paul Conner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 11:17 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pumps/forced landing Cannot resist adding fuel to the fire !!.........Even though a logic = circuit is used in=20 automobiles to start and shutoff the fuel pump as a safty feature I do = not intend to use this feature in my A/C....... In the event of a power off = unplanned landing we are taught to turn fuel off........Same procedure should be = followed no matter if done with a manual valve or a electrical switch and/or circuit = breaker....IMHO Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from David Staten = : --------------=20 The"ignition" system is shutting off the pump once adequate head = pressure is obtained. Its not the engine starting that directly triggers = the pump. Its the engine using the fuel in the rail, lowering the = pressure below the triggering threshold on some pressure sensor = somewhere, causing a logic circuit to turn the pump back on. The = feedback loop in this situation is based on fuel pressure. =20 Dave William wrote: Paul, If your ignition system shuts off the pump with no spark, isn't = the following going to happen? Pump 1 on -- engine running, pump 1 fuse blows, engine shuts down very quickly, Pump 2 turned on, but no spark since engine has stopped, therefore = it shuts off right away. Sounds like if engine stops, you have to crank it to get it = started again Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: sqpilot@bellsouth.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 1:42 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pumps/forced landing Turned on the other pump, but the engine had already quit. = (yes, it happens very fast) =20 I now recall reading in the MicroTech manual that the fuel = pumps shut off if it detects no spark from the coils, so that it would = not continue pumping fuel into an engine that has no spark. This is = obviously why the pump only runs for a few seconds when I first turn on = the ignition switch, then quickly stops pumping. We put a voltmeter to = the inline fuse, and found that it had 12.9 volts as soon as the = ignition was turned on, but after a few seconds, the pump stopped and = there was no longer any voltage at the fuse.=20 I'm hoping we can find what caused the slight fuel = obstruction in front of the gascolator....if we can't find the cause, it = would be difficult to regain confidence in the fuel system. Too bad, = because the engine was running strong and smooth, and the temps were = great!!! Paul aka deadstick Conner >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.1 - Release Date: 5/2/2005 ------=_NextPart_000_020A_01C55103.1BABE8D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Kelly....the only problem I see = here is that=20 there is a benefit to having the ECU turn off the fuel pump if it = detects no=20 spark. This would prevent the engine from flooding. If the fuel pump = kept=20 pumping fuel under high pressure, either the injectors dumping fuel into = the=20 engine, (or fuel leaking by the injectors if the injectors are no longer = firing)=20 could make it difficult to restart once you have regained = ignition/spark. =20 Just one more thought.  Paul Conner
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 = 11:17 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel=20 pumps/forced landing

Cannot resist adding fuel to the fire !!.........Even = though a logic=20 circuit is used in
automobiles to start and shutoff the fuel pump as a safty feature = I do=20 not intend
to use this feature in my A/C....... In the event of a power off=20 unplanned landing
we are taught to turn fuel off........Same procedure should be = followed=20 no matter
if done with a manual valve or a electrical switch and/or circuit = breaker....IMHO
 
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 =




--------------=20 Original message from David Staten <Dastaten@earthlink.net>:=20 --------------

The"ignition" system is shutting off the pump = once=20 adequate head pressure is obtained. Its not the engine starting that = directly triggers the pump. Its the engine using the fuel in the = rail,=20 lowering the pressure below the triggering threshold on some = pressure sensor=20 somewhere, causing a logic circuit to turn the pump back on. The = feedback=20 loop in this situation is based on fuel=20 pressure.
 
Dave

William wrote:
Paul,
If your ignition system shuts off = the pump=20 with no spark, isn't the following going to happen?
 
Pump 1 on -- engine = running,
pump 1 fuse blows, engine shuts = down very=20 quickly,
Pump 2 turned on, but no spark = since engine=20 has stopped, therefore it shuts off right away.
 
Sounds like if engine stops, you = have to=20 crank it to get it started again
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 sqpilot@bellsouth.net = To:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 Sent:=20 Monday, May 02, 2005 1:42 PM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: fuel pumps/forced landing
 Turned on the other pump, = but=20 the engine had already quit. (yes, it happens very=20 fast)  
 
      = I now recall=20 reading in the MicroTech manual that the fuel pumps shut off if = it=20 detects no spark from the coils, so that it would not continue = pumping=20 fuel into an engine that has no spark. This is obviously why the = pump=20 only runs for a few seconds when I first turn on the ignition = switch,=20 then quickly stops pumping. We put a voltmeter to the inline = fuse, and=20 found that it had 12.9 volts as soon as the ignition was turned = on, but=20 after a few seconds, the pump stopped and there was no longer = any=20 voltage at the fuse.
    I'm hoping = we can find=20 what caused the slight fuel obstruction in front of the = gascolator....if=20 we can't find the cause, it would be difficult to regain = confidence in=20 the fuel system. Too bad, because the engine was running strong = and=20 smooth, and the temps were great!!!  Paul aka deadstick=20 Conner

>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.1 - Release = Date:=20 5/2/2005
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