X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from frontend3.cwpanama.net ([201.225.225.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 932925 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 May 2005 20:08:44 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=201.225.225.169; envelope-from=rijakits@cwpanama.net Received: from [201.224.93.110] (HELO usuarioq3efog0) by frontend3.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.1) with SMTP id 39711182 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 May 2005 19:07:12 -0500 Message-ID: <014c01c55106$79891dd0$6e5de0c9@usuarioq3efog0> From: "rijakits" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EGT temps Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 19:07:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0148_01C550DC.90776C60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01C550DC.90776C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, was sent off to fast - now it is edited! ----- Original Message ----- From: rijakits To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:01 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EGT temps We have been here before (...I think), you want to know everything about LOP operation got to: http://www.gami.com Also the following reading is a good primer on the subject: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182131-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182132-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182179-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182176-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182583-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/183094-1.html If not everything, at least the parts that concern detonation can be applied directly to the rotary ( or to any engine for that matter). I didn't finish reading the turbo articles yet, but through #2, they are very interesting! So I just post the rest right away too! http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182103-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182104-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182105-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182106-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182107-1.html If you got that far you might just read on through all of John Deakin's Pelican's Perch articles.... For me it will be LOP as often as possible, however please note that it is pointed out, more than once, that you will need rather precise sensor/indication equipment and well balanced injectors. How ever as most on this list run Electronic Engine Controls, this is mostly basic equipment anyway. Setting up the controller correctly for LOP is the challenge, .....I think :) Thomas Jakits ----- Original Message ----- From: David Staten To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:04 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EGT temps David Carter wrote: A point I like to think of is that 50 or 80 degrees "from" "peak" on the rich side and on the lean side is, the same temperature. For piston engines, running 50 deg lean of peak is the same temp as running 50 deg rich of peak, so the valves are seeing the same temp - so why are some engine "gurus" so adament about cruising 50 deg rich of peak? It makes no sense to me. So, I believe there is no such thing as "EGT too high". There is only "peak EGT", whatever it is for your installation. David If you look at the lycoming temp/power graphics that seem to make their way around this board, you will notice that while 50..(or 80) degrees rich OR lean of peak are the same temperature, their effect is NOT the same. The Cylinder Head Temps in the rich of peak equation have been documented to be hotter, and "best power" occurs on the rich of peak side, not AT peak EGT or lean of peak. Now, we HAVE water cooling to help attenuate the temps the block attains.. but the lesson to be learned is that running on the rich of peak side results in more heat generation which is more heat that must be dissipated. The air cooled guys dont/shouldnt climb lean of peak primarily to avoid detonation and to use fuel for cooling. We probably could, but it helps to be aware of the events at play. Dave >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01C550DC.90776C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, was sent off to fast - now it is=20 edited!
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 rijakits
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 = 7:01=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EGT = temps

We have been here before (...I think), you = want to know=20 everything about LOP operation got to: http://www.gami.com
 
Also the following reading is a good primer on = the=20 subject:
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182131-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182132-1.html
 
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182179-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182176-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182583-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/183094-1.html
 
If not everything, at least the parts that = concern=20 detonation can be applied directly to the rotary ( or to any engine = for that=20 matter).
 
I didn't finish reading the turbo articles = yet, but=20 through #2, they are very interesting! So I just post the rest right = away=20 too!
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182102-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182103-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182104-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182105-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182106-1.html
http://www.avweb= .com/news/columns/182107-1.html
 
If you got that far you might just read on = through all=20 of John Deakin's Pelican's Perch = articles....
 
For me it will be LOP as often as possible, = however=20 please note that it is pointed out, more than once, that you will = need=20 rather precise sensor/indication equipment and well balanced = injectors. How=20 ever as most on this list run Electronic Engine Controls, this is = mostly basic=20 equipment anyway. Setting up the controller correctly for LOP is = the=20 challenge, .....I think :)
 
Thomas Jakits
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 David=20 Staten
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 = 5:04=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EGT=20 temps



David Carter wrote:
A point I like to think of is = that 50 or 80=20 degrees "from" "peak" on the rich side and on the lean side is, = the same=20 temperature.  For piston engines, running 50 deg lean of peak = is the=20 same temp as running 50 deg rich of peak, so the valves are seeing = the=20 same temp - so why are some engine "gurus" so adament = about=20 cruising 50 deg rich of peak?  It makes no sense to = me.
 
So, I believe there is no such = thing as "EGT=20 too high".  There is only "peak EGT", whatever it is = for  your=20 installation.
 
David =

If you look=20 at the lycoming temp/power graphics that seem to make their way = around this=20 board, you will notice that while 50..(or 80) degrees rich OR lean = of peak=20 are the same temperature, their effect is NOT the same. The Cylinder = Head=20 Temps in the rich of peak equation have been documented to be = hotter, and=20 "best power" occurs on the rich of peak side, not AT peak EGT or = lean of=20 peak. Now, we HAVE water cooling to help attenuate the temps the = block=20 attains.. but the lesson to be learned is that running on the rich = of peak=20 side results in more heat generation which is more heat that must be = dissipated.
 
The air cooled guys dont/shouldnt climb = lean of=20 peak primarily to avoid detonation and to use fuel for cooling. We = probably=20 could, but it helps to be aware of the events at = play.
 
Dave

>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

>>  Archive:   =
http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
------=_NextPart_000_0148_01C550DC.90776C60--