Return-Path: Received: from [199.185.220.223] (HELO priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 813801 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:12:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=199.185.220.223; envelope-from=echolakeresort@telus.net Received: from boucher-oddle24 ([207.194.26.72]) by priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050321161117.DVSH23927.priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net@boucher-oddle24> for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:11:17 -0700 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.7.3]); Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:11:16 -0800 Message-Id: <423EF223.000007.02764@BOUCHER-ODDLE24> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:11:15 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail (3001609) From: "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher)" References: To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: BMW and EWP X-FID: 1632BDDA-61AD-4DCC-BB3B-02B2C47E674F X-Priority: 3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-423EF2246BC5=======" --=======AVGMAIL-423EF2246BC5======= Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_RAMPWCW0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_RAMPWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_RAMPRN00000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_RAMPRN00000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Ed, with a belt speed reduction, quality belts & proper maintenanc= e I think "V" belts should be safe. I see the advantage of the variable flow = of the EWP, but adding an other electrical load to the system, complicating = the instalation,(2 pumps) more plumbing, more weight & a back up alternator. = To me seems less reliable than the the belt drive system (that's my 2 cents worth).=0D =0D =0D =0D Georges & Gail Boucher=0D 2126 Creighton Valley Road=0D Lumby, British Columbia=0D Canada V0E 2G1=0D Phone:(250) 547-6434=0D Fax:: (250-547-2342=0D www.echolakefishingresort.com=0D www.echolakefishingresort.ca =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Date: 03/21/05 04:04:12=0D To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: BMW and EWP=0D =0D Hi Georges,=0D =0D Not Tracy, but my alternator is underdriven by approx 40%. I have two Racing beat pulleys each 20% underdriven, one the main pulley on the esha= ft and the other on the alternator. Kelly is looking into a underdriven pul= ley for the water pump. Running continuos at above 5000, even 6000 rpm make = me decide to reduce the alternator speed and I would like to do the same for the water pump especially with engine rpms approaching 7000 rpm with the = 2 85 redrive. I also use the best V belts I can find (Gates) which I chang= e every two years and they have never shown any signs of stress such as cra= cks or grazing. Can not say the say of some cheaper belts I used in the past= , including one which after 5 flights had the rubber "clogs" falling off th= e belt.=0D =0D =0D =0D Ed Anderson=0D ----- Original Message ----- =0D From: Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher) =0D To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0D Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 12:31 AM=0D Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: BMW and EWP=0D =0D =0D Hi! Tracy=0D What do you mean "not sure you qualify as a "Gurru". The guys on the foru= m=20 bow to the east" before they mention your name (and make sure they give credit where credit is due).=0D How much should the alternator & water pump speed should be reduced? =0D =0D =0D =0D Georges & Gail Boucher=0D 2126 Creighton Valley Road=0D Lumby, British Columbia=0D Canada V0E 2G1=0D Phone:(250) 547-6434=0D Fax:: (250-547-2342=0D www.echolakefishingresort.com=0D www.echolakefishingresort.ca =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Date: 03/20/05 21:04:30=0D To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: BMW and EWP=0D =0D Don't know if I qualify as a guru but I sort of lean toward Al's position= =2E=20 I'm not sure there is a problem that needs to be solved. But we are at = a point where no two installations are alike and every installation has it'= s own unique requirements. If an EWP or timing belt solves some particular problem, go for it. =0D =0D I have used dual and single belts without problems for a long time.=0D =0D Tracy (finally done with travel trailer restoration hell)=0D =0D =0D =0D Hi! for those who don't want to wade into the EWP "fiasco" & are worried about a double belt system self- destructing, why not use a single tooth belt system (like timing belt) I used that on my race car for 6 years & never lost a belt with RPM hitting 9000 regularly. It has a positive driv= e with little tension, only needs one gear with cheek washers to keep the b= elt on track. If no one comes up with a good reason against it, I'll start looking for gears.Lets have some feed back from the "Gurrus"=0D =0D =0D Georges & Gail Boucher=0D 2126 Creighton Valley Road=0D Lumby, British Columbia=0D Canada V0E 2G1=0D Phone:(250) 547-6434=0D Fax:: (250-547-2342=0D www.echolakefishingresort.com=0D www.echolakefishingresort.ca =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Date: 03/20/05 13:19:17=0D To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0D Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: BMW and EWP=0D =0D In a message dated 3/20/2005 12:41:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, canarder@frontiernet.net writes:=0D The other list is forever making pronouncements about what will or will n= ot work. Their math is impeccable. The premises they operate from are not = Is it not possible that we are overlooking or underemphasizing some importan= t factor? That the hybrid (EWP and EDWP) systems we have online now are distorting the data? Leon's experience cannot ignore any of the factors.= =20 Our estimates can ignore as many as we want to (or are unaware of). I ca= n't help but think that a little morel hard data gathered from a purely EWP system will put a lot of the controversy to rest.=0D =0D A flawless line of reasoning, based on a false premise leads us right through the lookin' glass .=0D Jim S.=0D Jim, The False Premise comment seems to be spot on. Davies Craig mentions that the Ferrari 365 ALMS American Le Mans Series winner were using 2 EWP= 's in series per the Davies Craig site suggested method. I have been as skeptical as any about the EWP but is seems to be being used to great success. I think I will be planning for the use of 2, main and overtemp. = I will really want a good alternator and backup system!=0D Bill Jepson=0D =0D =0D =0D No virus found in this outgoing message.=0D Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.=0D Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005=0D >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=0D >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D No virus found in this outgoing message.=0D Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.=0D Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=0D >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0D =0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_RAMPRN00000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Ed, with a belt speed reduction, quality belts &= ; proper maintenance I think "V" belts should be safe. I see the advantag= e of the variable flow of the EWP, but adding an other electrical load to= the system, complicating the instalation,(2 pumps) more plumbing, more w= eight & a back up alternator. To me seems  less reliable than th= e the belt drive system (that's my 2 cents worth).
 
 
Georges & Gail Boucher
2126 Creighton Valley Road
Lumby, British Columbia
Canada  V0E 2G1
Phone:(250) 547-6434
Fax:: (250-547-2342
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 03/21/05 04:= 04:12
Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: BMW and EWP
 
Hi Georges,
 
Not Tracy, but my alternat= or is underdriven by approx 40%.  I have two Racing beat pulleys eac= h 20% underdriven, one the main pulley on the eshaft and the other on the= alternator.  Kelly is looking into a underdriven pulley for the wat= er pump.  Running continuos at above 5000, even 6000 rpm make me dec= ide to reduce the alternator speed and I would like to do the same for th= e water pump especially with engine rpms approaching 7000 rpm with the 2.= 85 redrive.  I also use the best V belts I can find (Gates) which I = change every two years and they have never shown any signs of stress= such as cracks or grazing.  Can not say the say of some cheaper bel= ts I used in the past, including one which after 5 flights had the rubber= "clogs" falling off the belt.
 
 
 
Ed Anderson
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 12:31= AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: BMW and E= WP

Hi! Tracy
What do you mean "not sure you qualify as a "Gurru". The guys o= n the forum "bow to the east" before they mention your name (and make sur= e they give credit where credit is due).
 How much should the alternator & water pump speed should b= e reduced? 
 
 
Georges & Gail Boucher
2126 Creighton Valley Road
Lumby, British Columbia
Canada  V0E 2G1
Phone:(250) 547-6434
Fax:: (250-547-2342
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 03/20/05 21:= 04:30
Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: BMW and EWP
 
Don't know if I qualify as a guru but I sort of lean toward Al's pos= ition.  I'm not sure there is a problem that needs to be solved.&nbs= p;  But we are at a point where no two installations are alike and e= very installation has it's own unique requirements.  If an EWP or ti= ming belt solves some particular problem, go for it. 
 
 I have used dual and single belts without problems for a long = time.
 
Tracy  (finally done with travel trailer restoration = hell)
 
 
 
Hi! for those who don't want to wade into the EWP "fiasco" = ; & are worried about a double belt system self- destructing, why not= use a single tooth belt system (like timing belt) I used that on my race= car for 6 years & never lost a belt with RPM hitting 9000 regul= arly. It has a positive drive with little tension, only needs one gear wi= th cheek washers to keep the belt on track. If no one comes up with a goo= d reason against it, I'll start looking for gears.Lets have some feed bac= k from the "Gurrus"
 
Georges & Gail Boucher
2126 Creighton Valley Road
Lumby, British Columbia
Canada  V0E 2G1
Phone:(250) 547-6434
Fax:: (250-547-2342
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 03/20/05 13:= 19:17
Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: BMW and EWP
 
In a message dated 3/20/2005 12:41:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, cana= rder@frontiernet.net writes:
The other l= ist is forever making pronouncements about what will or will not work.&nb= sp; Their math is impeccable.  The premises they operate from= are not  Is it not possible that we are overlooking or under= emphasizing some important factor?  That the hybrid (EWP and = EDWP) systems we have online now are distorting the data?  Leon's ex= perience cannot ignore any of the factors.  Our estimates can ignore= as many as we want to (or are unaware of).  I can't help but think = that a little morel hard data gathered from a purely EWP system will put = a lot of the controversy to rest.

A flawless line of reason= ing, based on a false premise leads us right through the lookin= ' glass .
Jim S.
Jim, The False Premise comment seems to be spot on. Davies Craig men= tions that the Ferrari 365 ALMS American Le Mans Series winner were using= 2 EWP's in series per the Davies Craig site suggested method. = I have been as skeptical as any about the EWP but is seems to be being us= ed to great success. I think I will be planning for the use of 2, main an= d overtemp. I will really want a good alternator and backup system!
Bill Jepson
 
No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.= 3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005
>>  Homepage:  http://www.= flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:   http://lancaironlin= e.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
 
=20

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Vi= rus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2= 005

>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>&g= t;  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html
 
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005 --=======AVGMAIL-423EF2246BC5=======--