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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:01:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: peripheral ports
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From: Jerry Hey <jerryhey@earthlink.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-792122@logan.com>
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--Apple-Mail-4--645874742
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  George,  you are completely right.   Apparently we are not quite=20
finished with a frustrating month of extremely cold temperatures  in=20
the shop  and several outside projects talking time when it is possible=20=

to work.  It is ten degrees this morning.  My p port stuff is on hold=20
for a couple more weeks but the project is only stalled physically. =20
Mentally it is moving forward nicely.  The only question before me is=20
wether or not the remotely installed  injectors will work.  If not I=20
will IMMEDIATELY relocate them.  There are no other unknowns facing the=20=

p port.  It will develop a lot of power, it will have good throttle=20
response,  it will idle.  It will be light weight and have a small foot=20=

print.   It is not an experiment waiting to be proven. I am just=20
copying known and proven technology that has been around for a long=20
time.  Design of the intake manifold is a problem for me because I am=20
still enamored with injectors on the cool side and am trying to make it=20=

work.     Jerry

P.S to Rusty.  You said a good street port would develop about the same=20=

power as a good p port at our rpms.  Sorry but this is simply not true.


On Monday, March 14, 2005, at 01:50  AM, George Lendich wrote:

> =A0
> Bill supporting your statement - Mazda supplied P-Ported housings. I=20=

> can't remember why they did whether it was for competition racing or=20=

> such - they idled OK.
> =A0
> The secret is to identify that which works best for our needs=20
> (AVIATION) and set it up for that.
> =A0
> Overlap causes=A0inlet fuel contamination/ dilution, SURE, but so to =
do=20
> most engines, which have up to 30 degrees overlap ( if I remember=20
> correctly).
> In radical cam reciprocating engines, the cam keeps the valves open=20
> longer - hence overlap. Two strokes have overlap.
> =A0
> The mixing of gases can be minimized with timing and shape of the=20
> ports and velocity of the incoming gases - this is what Jerry's doing.
> =A0
> It would be prudent to=A0wait for his development outcomes.
> =A0
> I calculated velocity and timing as did Jerry=A0and he had expert=20
> advice, mine was a bit rudimentary but the outcomes agreed. This is=20
> supported by the Powersport specifications, so I don't see Jerry being=20=

> too far off the mark.
> =A0
> George ( down under)=A0
> =A0
> =A0
> =A0Group,
>
> =A0I really would like to know where the idea that the PP rotary won't=20=

> idle came from?=A0
> This is total baloney. Lynn Hanover has commented several times that=20=

> his=A0PP 12A idles just fine. Some carburated engines with unusual=20
> manifolds sometimes have problems. This is true for both=A0PP and side=20=

> port engines. Many of the earlier=A0rotary engines used P ports.
> =A0If and engine is radically ported in either port type, (just like a=20=

> radically cammed piston engine), it can be difficult to make idle. If=20=

> you keep the port timing reasonable the engine ?WILL IDLE FINE,=20
> especially a EFI engine. The throttle plates=A0being close to the=20
> housings makes things work better.=A0The MB C111 used various rotary=20=

> configurations. Most of the engines were peripheral ported. There was=20=

> no problem with idle, but the=A0sealing problems of that era prevented =
a=20
> production version. If your engine is set up=A0carefully without =
radical=20
> timing idle won't =A0be a problem. The real problems encountered by =
many=20
> people are caused by large ports and extended port timings.
> Bill Jepson
>

--Apple-Mail-4--645874742
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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 George,  you are completely right.   Apparently we are not quite
finished with a frustrating month of extremely cold temperatures  in
the shop  and several outside projects talking time when it is
possible to work.  It is ten degrees this morning.  My p port stuff is
on hold for a couple more weeks but the project is only stalled
physically.  Mentally it is moving forward nicely.  The only question
before me is wether or not the remotely installed  injectors will
work.  If not I will IMMEDIATELY relocate them.  There are no other
unknowns facing the p port.  It will develop a lot of power, it will
have good throttle response,  it will idle.  It will be light weight
and have a small foot print.   It is not an experiment waiting to be
proven. I am just copying known and proven technology that has been
around for a long time.  Design of the intake manifold is a problem
for me because I am still enamored with injectors on the cool side and
am trying to make it work.     Jerry


P.S to Rusty.  You said a good street port would develop about the
same power as a good p port at our rpms.  Sorry but this is simply not
true.  =20


    =20

On Monday, March 14, 2005, at 01:50  AM, George Lendich wrote:


<excerpt>=A0

Bill supporting your statement - Mazda supplied P-Ported housings. I
can't remember why they did whether it was for competition racing or
such - they idled OK.

=A0

The secret is to identify that which works best for our needs
(AVIATION) and set it up for that.

=A0

Overlap causes=A0inlet fuel contamination/ dilution, SURE, but so to do
most engines, which have up to 30 degrees overlap ( if I remember
correctly).

In radical cam reciprocating engines, the cam keeps the valves open
longer - hence overlap. Two strokes have overlap.

=A0

The mixing of gases can be minimized with timing and shape of the
ports and velocity of the incoming gases - this is what Jerry's doing.

=A0

It would be prudent to=A0wait for his development outcomes.

=A0

I calculated velocity and timing as did Jerry=A0and he had expert
advice, mine was a bit rudimentary but the outcomes agreed. This is
supported by the Powersport specifications, so I don't see Jerry being
too far off the mark.

=A0

George ( down under)=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0Group,


=A0I really would like to know where the idea that the PP rotary won't
idle came from?=A0

This is total baloney. Lynn Hanover has commented several times that
his=A0PP 12A idles just fine. Some carburated engines with unusual
manifolds sometimes have problems. This is true for both=A0PP and side
port engines. Many of the earlier=A0rotary engines used P ports.

=A0If and engine is radically ported in either port type, (just like a
radically cammed piston engine), it can be difficult to make idle. If
you keep the port timing reasonable the engine ?WILL IDLE FINE,
especially a EFI engine. The throttle plates=A0being close to the
housings makes things work better.=A0The MB C111 used various rotary
configurations. Most of the engines were peripheral ported. There was
no problem with idle, but the=A0sealing problems of that era prevented a
production version. If your engine is set up=A0carefully without radical
timing idle won't =A0be a problem. The real problems encountered by many
people are caused by large ports and extended port timings.

Bill Jepson


</excerpt>=

--Apple-Mail-4--645874742--