Return-Path: Received: from frontend2.cwpanama.net ([201.225.225.168] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c2) with ESMTP id 769381 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 Mar 2005 20:48:11 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=201.225.225.168; envelope-from=rijakits@cwpanama.net Received: from [201.224.93.110] (HELO usuarioq3efog0) by frontend2.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.1) with SMTP id 36466229 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 Mar 2005 20:53:19 -0500 Message-ID: <008501c5205c$10d742b0$6e5de0c9@usuarioq3efog0> From: "rijakits" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel cutoff valve necessary? Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:47:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0081_01C52032.27AB5280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C52032.27AB5280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell Duffy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:11 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel cutoff valve necessary? I don't doubt that it is so, Ed, but putting the edicts from Federal agencies aside, I'd like to raise the question of whether it is safer. Indeed, how many crashes have resulted from people taking off with the fuel valves off? Granted, that won't happen with fuel injection, but with a big carb bowl it does. Assuming that connections will be the weakest spot in any system, and that there actually is a pump that blocks flow when there's no power applied (I haven't tried to determine if there is), I would argue that the pump IS the cutoff valve, This is another one of those questions I've never seen a good answer for, so out to the garage I just went. I grabbed one of the Walbro in-tank pumps, and tried with all my might to blow through it, and could not. With the exception of my cheeks, I feel better now. My RV-3 has no fuel shutoff valves. Rusty (forgot what I was going to put here) I guess in Experimental there goes a lot that would be impossible on a certified plane. If you get distracted and fumble around in an emergency for the fuel shut off you are way behind on your emergency procedure practise anyway! That should be one of those items in your flying career that should go automatic even if you are in a coma! If you don't use the fuel shut off regularly you still should be able to get at it and actuate it blind/sleeping/dumbfounded/etc.!! When your electric system starts to act up, you might not be able to shut down your pumps! You still can stop your engine by cutting the fuel! If I ever get to build my plane it will have at a minimum a emergency fuel shut off. Most likely safety-wired open with a big red handle on it, in a easy reachable spot, but still out of the way: eg. for a side throttle just forward of the throttle lever - so you can let go of the throttle grab the shut off and pull. For a center throttle, put it on the roof - reach up, grab it and pull. Use a flexcable to actuate the valve (or valves) as close to the tanks as possible. The safety wire keeps it from accidental actuation, but a serious yank will brake the wire and cut the fire! (The only reason you really would want to cut the fuel, ....or maybe a runaway engine...) But keeping it to a part that is not really a shut off valve, like the fuel pump, no way! What if the pump shortens out/gets hot/leaks/etc. I want to be able to cut the fuel at the source! Back lurking! Thomas J. (Curious about Rusty's EWP tests!) ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C52032.27AB5280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 = 8:11=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel = cutoff=20 valve necessary?

I don't doubt that it is so, Ed, but putting the = edicts from=20 Federal
agencies aside, I'd like to raise the question of whether = it is=20 safer.

Indeed, how many=20 crashes have resulted from people taking off with the fuel valves = off? =20 Granted, that won't happen with fuel injection, but with a big carb = bowl it=20 does. 

Assuming that connections will be the weakest spot in any system,=20 and
that there actually is a pump that blocks flow when there's no=20 power
applied (I haven't tried to determine if there is),  I = would=20 argue that
the pump IS the cutoff valve,

This is another one of = those=20 questions I've never seen a good answer for, so out to the garage I = just=20 went.  I grabbed one of the Walbro in-tank pumps, and tried with = all my=20 might to blow through it, and could not.   With the = exception of my=20 cheeks, I feel better now.  My RV-3 has no fuel shutoff = valves. =20

Rusty (forgot what I = was going to put=20 here)

I guess in Experimental = there goes a=20 lot that would be impossible on a certified plane.

If you get distracted = and fumble=20 around in an emergency for the fuel shut off you are way behind on = your=20 emergency procedure practise anyway! That should be one of those items = in your=20 flying career that should go automatic even if you are in a = coma!

If you don't use the = fuel shut off=20 regularly you still should be able to get at it and actuate it=20 blind/sleeping/dumbfounded/etc.!!

When your electric = system starts to=20 act up, you might not be able to shut down your pumps! You still can = stop your=20 engine by cutting the fuel!

If I ever get to build = my plane it=20 will have at a minimum a emergency fuel shut off. Most = likely=20 safety-wired open with a big red handle on it, in a easy reachable = spot, but=20 still out of the way: eg. for a side throttle just forward of the = throttle=20 lever - so you can let go of the throttle grab the shut off and = pull. For=20 a center throttle, put it on the roof - reach up, grab it and pull. = Use a=20 flexcable to actuate the valve (or valves) as close to the tanks = as=20 possible.

The safety wire keeps = it from=20 accidental actuation, but a serious yank will brake the wire and cut = the fire!=20 (The only reason you really would want to cut the fuel, ....or maybe a = runaway=20 engine...)

But keeping it to a = part that is not=20 really a shut off valve, like the fuel pump, no way! What if the pump = shortens=20 out/gets hot/leaks/etc. I want to be able to cut the fuel at the=20 source!

Back = lurking!

Thomas J. (Curious = about Rusty's EWP=20 tests!)


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