Return-Path: Received: from mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.183] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP-TLS id 723257 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:58:45 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.183; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-104-246.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.104.246]) by mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j1A7vt0w001522 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:57:56 +1100 Message-ID: <001f01c50f46$881fa5f0$f668ecdc@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: P port intake Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:00:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01C50F9A.597C3660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C50F9A.597C3660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom, Your on the right track! Exhaust contamination of the inlet charge, affects idle ( only) as the = exhaust become self evacuating at higher velocity (RPM). Cause larger Ports and PP Backpressure on the inlet charge also affects idle as the backpressure = cause fuel droplets to drop out of suspension, which causes surging, one = inlet charge lean the next rich etc. Cause larger ports and PP. The close to housing butterfly, helps to minimize both, before too = much ( of either)=20 enters the inlet manifold tube. The RX 8 eliminates the first problem i.e. overlap. No problem with = the second. PP can cause the second problem. DI will eliminate both problems! George ( down under) Sorry. Ok, it's not the residue that would be a problem, it's the = back pressure in a combined intake system.=20 Tom wrote:=20 That is interesting Ed. Just thinking about it and now it would = seem that the expelled residue would be the first thing that got sucked = back thru a dedicated runner, also having a negative effect.=20 Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Tom, One reason that Jerry would not want to do that is that there is = overlap between intake and exhaust. That means while one rotor is = trying to suck air in its intake port - the intake port of the other = rotor may be expelling some residue exhaust gas out its intake and = opposing any incoming air. I think the engine would certainly run but = I don't think you would develop best power. Now it would probably be a = different story with the Renesis which by moving the exhaust ports to = the side housings has eliminate the exhaust/intake overlap. FWIW Ed A=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:58 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P port intake Jerry,=20 Since only one rotor chamber is drawing fuel/air at any given = time, why would you not feed them both from a single throttle body? Tom Jerry Hey wrote: George, originally I was going to hook up with a piece of hose = over the=20 butted pieces with a couple of hose clamps. That is how I will = attach=20 the other end at the throttle bodies. But, we have been = considering=20 welding and also building some type of flange. Certainly, for = starters=20 I will use the hose and clamp method. Jerry On Wednesday, February 9, 2005, at 08:43 PM, George Lendich = wrote: > Jerry, > Is that a but weld, OR does the tube go into the bellmouth = end OR a=20 > flange that they both go into. > George ( down under)=20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Hey > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 9:35 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P port intake > > Yes, it is 1.61 inches. > > > On Wednesday, February 9, 2005, at 05:39 PM, Tom wrote: > > Jerry, > Do you have an i.d. measurement for the narrow end? > =20 > TIA > Tom > > Jerry Hey wrote: > > Today UPS brought the bell mouths for the P port intake. = They are > three inches o.d. across and have a smooth gradual taper = down to the > runner size ... > > > >=20 > > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C50F9A.597C3660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Tom,
Your on the right track!
Exhaust contamination of the inlet = charge,=20 affects idle ( only) as the exhaust become self evacuating at higher = velocity=20 (RPM).
Cause larger Ports and PP
 
Backpressure on the inlet charge also = affects=20 idle as the backpressure cause fuel droplets to drop out of = suspension, which=20 causes surging, one inlet charge lean the next rich etc.
Cause larger ports and PP.
 
The close to housing butterfly, helps = to=20 minimize both, before too much ( of either)
enters the inlet manifold tube.
 
The RX 8 eliminates the = first problem=20 i.e. overlap. No problem with the second.
PP can cause the second = problem.
DI will eliminate both problems!
George ( down under)
 
Sorry.  Ok, it's not the residue that would be a problem, = it's the=20 back pressure in a combined intake system.

Tom <tomtugan@yahoo.com> = wrote:=20
That is interesting Ed.  Just thinking about it and = now it=20 would seem that the expelled residue would be the first thing that = got=20 sucked back thru a dedicated runner, also having a negative effect.=20

Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> = wrote:=20
Tom,
 
One reason that Jerry would not = want to do=20 that is that there is overlap between intake and exhaust.  = That means=20 while one rotor is trying to suck air in its intake port - the = intake port=20 of the other rotor may be expelling some residue exhaust gas out = its=20 intake and opposing any incoming air.  I think the engine = would=20 certainly  run but I don't think you would develop best = power. =20 Now it would probably  be a different story with the = Renesis=20 which by moving the exhaust ports to the side housings has = eliminate the=20 exhaust/intake overlap.
 
FWIW
 
Ed A
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Tom=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, February = 09, 2005=20 8:58 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = P port=20 intake

Jerry,
Since only one rotor chamber is drawing fuel/air at any = given time,=20 why would you not feed them both from a single throttle = body?
Tom

Jerry Hey <jerryhey@earthlink.net>= =20 wrote:
George,=20 originally I was going to hook up with a piece of hose over = the=20
butted pieces with a couple of hose clamps. That is how I = will=20 attach
the other end at the throttle bodies. But, we have = been=20 considering
welding and also building some type of flange. = Certainly, for starters
I will use the hose and clamp = method.=20 Jerry





On Wednesday, February 9, 2005, = at 08:43=20 PM, George Lendich wrote:

> Jerry,
> Is that a = but=20 weld, OR does the tube go into the  bellmouth end OR = a=20
> flange that they both go into.
> George ( down=20 under) 
>
> ----- Original Message = -----
>=20 From: Jerry Hey
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> = Sent:=20 Thursday, February 10, 2005 9:35 AM
> Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: P=20 port intake
>
> Yes, it is 1.61=20 inches.
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 9, = 2005, at=20 05:39 PM, Tom wrote:
>
> Jerry,
> Do you = have an=20 i.d. measurement for the narrow end?
>  
>=20 TIA
> Tom
>
> Jerry Hey=20 wrote:
>
> Today UPS = brought the=20 bell mouths for the P port intake. They are
> three = inches o.d.=20 across and have a smooth gradual taper down to the
> = runner size=20 ...
>
>
>
>=20
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> = Yahoo!=20 Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second = Term'
>

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced = search.=20 Learn=20 more.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib=20 Jab's 'Second Term'

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib=20 Jab's 'Second Term' ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C50F9A.597C3660--