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Curtis Krouse wrote:

> Come on now.....let's be realistic.  Do you really think that one little
> voice like mine can bring down an entire company's reputation??

If not, then why are you saying:

> Will you be willing to sign and abide by an agreement that bars you from
> making any negative comments about Garmin in case the system does not
> work as expected or if the whole installation turns out to be
> nightmare?  NOT IN YOUR LIFETIME OR MINE!

If you think your voice does not matter, then why be so adamant at keeping it?

> Garmin and other companies who follow the policy of "we gotta install it
> or else" are not providing a service, they are hiding from it.

What "service" are you looking for?  When you go to eat at a restaurant, they cook
the food for you.  The better restraints will let you specify exactly how you would
like the food cooked (I like my steak just rare of medium well), but they will not
let you come into the kitchen and cook it yourself.  Do you consider that lack of
service?

The service that Garmin and others are looking to provide is a radio (or other
avionics) that works well in YOUR airplane.  That requires a certain level of
expertise on their part to design a product that can work in just about any airplane
and a certain level of expertise on the installer's part that makes it work by
designing and implement a proper installation.  If either party drops the ball, the
end result is going to be a radio that does not work properly in YOUR airplane.
Quite understandably, if the installation in your airplane is not working, it will be
of no consolation to you that it does work in 99% other installations.  You would
like the problem redressed and if you are like most other people, you will be quick
at pointing the finger at the other party.  "It is your d### product that is bad, not
my installation" is the most common response when things go sour.

>  If it
> were my decision to install a Garmin 430/530 and I had to pay for tech
> support....then I for one would be happy to do that.  'Nuff said.

Are you willing to keep paying and paying even if you are convinced that the problem
is not in your installation but rather in their unit?  What if you feel that the
reason you had to spend $1,000 in support is because of lousy documentation on their
part? (The assumed too much knowledge on your part)  How would you be feeling, if
after spending $3,000 for support, things were no better?  (Obviously their
technician is clueless)  What would you do if after spending $6,0000 in support you
were told that they could not figure out what you did wrong in your panel and that
there was nothing more they could do for you?  (You have components from 6 different
manufacturers in your panel and neither manufacturer's support person knows anything
about the other manufacturer's products)  Would you really be happy with all these
scenarios?

The likely answer is that you would be classified somewhere between quite unhappy and
livid long before you got to the final stages.  At that point, you will start to
exercise your dearly cherished voice in loudly complaining about the company and
their products.  You will not be alone, there will be others like you, who will all
say that based on their first hand experience, the product does not work.  When there
are enough voices saying the same thing, true or false, it is perceived as the
truth.  And when someone would talk to all the unhappy customers and ask them what
was really wrong with the product, it will boil down to "it was just too b###dy
complicated to install."  Maybe Garmin already knows that to be true (could it be
that they have leant it the hard way) and is proactively working to solve the
problem; train the people who install it so they are up to the task.  Maybe they will
let you install your own -- you just need to go through the same training and
supervision requirements that their dealers have to go through.

You seem to be pretty well set in your opinion that as a builder you should be
designing and building your own avionics installation.  Where do you draw the line?
Do you stop at doing your own installation.  What if you want to assemble your own
unit as well -- it will be educational to say the least.  Should Garmin be required
to provide you a parts kit like Heathkit radios?  I am sure there are a number of
features in their software that you do not like.  Should they provide you with the
source code for their software so you can customize it to your liking?

Hamid

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