Message-ID: <066901c0557b$d46fa9c0$6601a8c0@chmedia.com>
Reply-To: "Allen Rockwell" <allen@rdtechservices.com>
Reply-To: lancair.list@olsusa.com
From: "Allen Rockwell" <allen@rdtechservices.com>
To: <lancair.list@olsusa.com>
References: <001f01c0556e$675ebf40$c9b088ce@pavilion>
Subject: Re: Water-based paint system
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:33:09 -0800
Organization: R & D Technical Services
Mime-Version: 1.0

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Jim,

I'm with you on the water based paint issue.  I have tried a few systems and
found them very difficult to work with.  My advice to anyone building a
composite airplane is to prime with Feather Fill.  This stuff is magic - you
put it on heavy, it cures (completely) in a day and it sands nicely.
Generally one heavy coat is all it takes.

Allen Rockwell
R&D Technical Services
Your one stop for Models, Prototypes and KitPlane Builder Assistance.
www.rdtechservices.com
Glasair Super II Builder
http://allen.glasairnews.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "J. N. Cameron" <toucan@The-I.net>
To: "Lancair List" <lancair.list@olsusa.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:56 AM
Subject: Water-based paint system


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>           <<  Lancair Builders' Mail List  >>
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> >>
>     The prospect of having no toxic solvents and water cleanup seemed too
> attractive to pass up, so I've been painting my ES as I go along the the
UV
> Smooth Prime and Top Gloss system.  For those who are wondering, here are
my
> impressions so far:
>
>     UV Smooth Prime:  Yes, it's easy to apply, and easy to sand.  You can
> recoat after a couple of hours.  And yes, cleanup is easy.  That's about
the
> extent of what I have good to say about it.  I've been rolling three
coats,
> then sanding with a guide coat to make sure I get all the pits and orange
> peel sanded down, then spraying three more coats and repeating the
sanding,
> again with a guide coat.  In a lot of areas that has not been enough, so
> I've got 8 or even 9 coats of primer on some areas.  The stuff is not very
> tough, so it's easy to sand right through.  On my first ES, I used DuPont
> Corlar, a two-part epoxy primer.  By doing the spraying quickly, wearing a
> respirator with two fresh charcoal canisters, then opening the windows and
> leaving the hangar till the solvents cleared, I was pretty satisfied that
my
> liver was safe.  The Corlar was a bit more work to sand, but it was tough
> and came out with a beautiful finish, smooth, no pits, no weave, and ready
> to paint after just a few days' cure.
>     The unsettling thing about the UV Smooth Prime is that it seems to
keep
> curing and keep shrinking for weeks and weeks.  You can put guide coat on
an
> area, sand it mirror smooth, then come back in three or four weeks, spray
a
> little more guide coat and sand lightly, and presto!, you see the weave
> again.
>
>     Top Gloss (water-based):  This just is just a b___ to spray.  The
manual
> supplied with it says an HVLP sprayer is OK, but my results with mine were
> horrible.  I either got dry spray or sags.  When I called the factory and
> spoke with their rather grumpy tech, he told me I had to use a
conventional
> spray rig.  OK, so I tried that, too, and the results are only a little
> better.  The margin between not enough paint and too much is so thin that
> I've found it almost impossible to get a decent top coat, and that's been
> with horizontal surfaces.  I can't wait till I try the vertical surfaces
on
> the fuselage!  In the end I opted for trying to get a slightly dry coat,
> figuring I'd take it down with the wet sanding and buffing later.
>     Well, I've now finished my HStab.  It was primed, then sat for a
couple
> of months, then was top coated and cured for another month or month and a
> half before I touched it with sandpaper.  Again, as recommended in their
> manual, I started with 600 grit, wet-sanding, but found out it makes
> scratches that are too deep to get out without a lot of work with the 1000
> and up.  So, on the rest of it I started with 1000, then worked through
> 1500, 2000, a buffing compound, and then a swirl remover/ finishing glaze.
> The gloss is nice, but I'm apalled to see the cloth weave coming back
> through in some areas.  The film build also seems very thin, and I went
> through a couple areas down to the primer, so it'll need more touch-up,
and,
> probably, weeks more of curing.  The Top Gloss, like the Smooth Prime, has
> not seemed to stop curing (and shrinking), even after sitting for weeks
and
> weeks in 70+ temperatures.
>     By the way, I tried to repair a small area after only about a week
cure,
> and found that the edges would not sand, but kept peeling off as a film.
> After sitting for another few weeks, I did manage to sand it and feather
in
> some more top coat, but the experience didn't inspire confidence.
>
>     I'm now seriously contemplating sanding it all off and switching to
> PPG's DCC or CLV.  I've probably spent $1600 or so on the primer and paint
> (the primer doesn't seem to go very far), which I may just write off as a
> bad learning experience.  I think I can top coat over the UV Smooth Prime,
> but if, after several more weeks, I find the weave has re-appeared in the
> surface, I'm inclined to think it will keep shrinking into the weave for
> some indefinite period, so maybe I'll have to sand it all right off!
> Arrrggghhhh.  There goes a couple of hundred hours.
>
>     My advice re the water-based paint:  Forget it.
>
> Jim Cameron, ES #2 in progress (at times)
>
>
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