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I had a comparable situation, though on landing. A Cessna taxied
onto the runway and started to roll while I was on short final. I had been
distracted entering the pattern and was operating on a tip tank instead of
switching to the main as I usually do. Rather than overrun a slow-moving plane
with an unpredictable pilot I decided to firewall it, pull up and leave the
pattern. When I did the tank unported. The engine died instantly, about 3- 400’
AGL. No time to change anything, troubleshoot, or try for a restart, and no time
for panic either- I was looking straight at the ground. Luckily I was in landing
configuration, gear out and half flaps, over a clean (no stubble) field. No
maneuvering- I just went down. I had experience flying without reference to
gauges and knew the feel of the plane so I kept my eyes outside. That might not
be so easy with a Lancair.
Made a perfect 3-point landing (with photos to prove it), again by luck- no
reference for flare. I rolled to a stop just at the edge of the farmer’s lawn.
No damage or prop strike and overnight the thin layer of mud froze so I was able
to taxi and fly off. Oh, and I got a good aviation lawyer right away.
From my experience, don’t count on doing anything except keeping the plane
under control unless you have a lot of altitude. -Bill Wade
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 3:17 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam][LML] Re: Flaps on
take-off?
Good question.
It really depends on how low. If it is low to the point where I am
not going to make it to low key, I am going to land straight ahead somewhere. If
it is my home field I am putting on the train tracks which run parallel to the
runway and right next to it, KWHP while praying for no train. It is very much a
part of my process to work the trim and flaps at the same time after I put the
gear down. I image in this situation I will not be putting the gear down, I have
always planned on belly up for this scenario. The sudden loss of power is going
to demand a pitch change so I am sure I will be doing that instinctively. Will I
be running the flaps down at the same time, who knows. Perhaps if I remember to.
It is likely because that is what I always do when I get ready to land, run the
flaps and trim at the same time while looking out the left window at my flap
position. I also make trim changes in flight all the time like when I level off.
I am not running the flaps then so who knows. I might forget and end up landing
fast. With the heart pumping and the stress it is hard to say for certain what
would happen. I do know this, there is a certain small chance that I wouldn't
have time to or would forget to put the flaps down for landing in this
situation. I also know that there is a certain small chance that I take off and
departure gives me some instruction that requires me to look at my map, I am
stillchoosing the I don't want departure to distract me and cause me to fixate
at the wrong time causing my plane to be pointed nose up at 1000 agl because
they distracted me while I was cleaning my flaps up. Ohh, I have been distracted
this way in the past while taking off. It is hard to always ignore the
controllers. They tend to switch things on you right when you check in with them
sometimes requiring you to write things down.
Matt
From: Bill Hannahan
<wfhannahan@yahoo.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 3:32
AM
Subject: [LML] Flaps on
take-off?
Matt, I agree with the others that w's insults are inexcusable, but I
must ask a question.
What
do you do if your low over the departure end of the runway and the engine
quits?
1.
Land at high speed flaps up.
2.
Lower the flaps and deal with the big trim and pitch change while making all the
other decisions and actions required in parallel.
3.
?
Regards,
Bill Hannahan
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "marv@lancair.net"
<marv@lancair.net>
To:
lml <lml>
Sent: Monday,
August 12, 2013 4:02 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Flaps on
take-off?
Posted for Matt losangeles
<mattinlosangeles@yahoo.com>:
> I feel much safer adding 5 knots
or so on the ground before I lift off so I
>don't have to mess with trim
when I am low to the ground. I could see a
>scenario where I take off IFR
and I am immediately handed off to departure
>control while I am putting
the flaps up. They tell me to do something the
>requires me to look at my
map and the next thing you know, while distracted,
> I am at an unusual
attitude really close to the ground. When I am down low
>like that I want
to make sure if I am distracted it isn't a problem, the
>plane just keeps
on climbing along at Vy or so.
>
> I also would guess if you
use flaps on take off, this adds drag and slows
>your rate of climb (I
have not tested this). I am able to be at Vy a couple
>seconds after take
off and I am going to get to a safer altitude before the
>guy using flaps
(again, this is my guess since I have not tested the two
>scenarios).
>
> Another thing. It is an experimental
aircraft. As it states on the
>EAA, "There is no FAA approved
flight manual or POH for experimental
>aircraft, nor is there a
TC".
>
> Ohh, what about those reno racer Legacy
aircraft that have just bonded thier
>flaps in place so they can't go
down in order to eliminate the drag of the
>hindges. I guess they are not
flying those aircraft the way they were meant
>to be flown. You could
argue they are reno racers I suppose. It is also
>likely they are using
those planes the other 51 weeks out of the year to fly
>all over the
place and those planes don't seem to be crashing on takeoff.
>
> "I believe everyone would agree that flaps do add a margin of
safety"
> I personally consider myself part of everyone and I don't
agree that flaps
>do in fact add a margin of safety on take off. I use
them on landing so I can
>see out the window and out of habit I suppose.
If the speed you land at makes
>such a difference, then the best thing to
be doing is flying a plane that
>lands at a slower speed.
>
> Perhaps if we were all 100 hour pilots, blindly following the POH makes
>sense. It is funny, I remember having this EXACT same argument on a
Mooney
>board. I used to take off without flaps when I had a Mooney and I
heard the
>same thing there. Follow the POH explicitly or you are
completely reckless
>and should have your license taken away. At least
those Mooney guys had a
>point. That was a certified aircraft with a POH
that said to take off with
>flaps.
>
> Something else
to consider, if flaps are so critical to flight on our
>planes, why on
earth don't they have a back up system to ensure they always
>go down
when needed like our landing gear has? My guess is because the plane
>will fly just fine without them.
>
> Matt
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Art Jensen
<flycassutts@yahoo.com>
> To: lml@lancaironline.net
> Sent:
Monday, August 12, 2013 1:46 PM
> Subject: [LML] Re: To Marv
>
> Maybe Wolfgang was short on political correctness, but the truth
remains
>that if you cannot or do not fly the plane as it was meant to be
flown then
>you should not be flying that plane.
>
> I
believe everyone would agree that flaps do add a margin of safety and
>should be used for take-off and landing as per your POH and I believe
every
>instructor giving training in a Lancair would agree. If an
instructor
>reading this disagrees, please share why you disagree with
me.
>
> Art
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>
> ________________________________
> From:
steve <n5276j@aol.com>; To:
<lml@lancaironline.net>; Subject:
> [LML] Re: To Marv
Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:39:28 PM
> I second
your post. I am surprised by the comment.
>
> steve
alderman N25SA 360
>
> .
> -----Original
Message----- From: Claudette Colwell <colwell.ch@gmail.com>
>To:
lml <lml@lancaironline.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:43 am Subject:
>[LML] To Marv
> It is very regretful the comment from
Wolfgang apparently directed to Matt
>appeared on the LML. This has
always been a constructive exchange of
>information and ideas. That
type of personal comment is not in keeping with
>the spirit of
cooperative sharing of information.
>
>
Claudette
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