X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:41:38 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman1@gmail.com> Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com ([209.85.223.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6416383 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:41:14 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.223.172; envelope-from=2thman1@gmail.com Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 17so11039659iea.31 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:40:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.26.36 with SMTP id i4mr3392308igg.33.1376415638803; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:40:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman1@gmail.com> Received: from [10.104.235.20] (mobile-166-147-081-225.mycingular.net. [166.147.81.225]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id io8sm5408966igb.7.2013.08.13.10.40.36 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:40:37 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9029BF3F-4CFB-44D4-81DD-22B778F8F50E X-Original-Message-Id: <07C5E9C7-5831-45AF-A533-D6E29003587E@gmail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) From: John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter failed X-Original-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:40:32 -0700 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List --Apple-Mail-9029BF3F-4CFB-44D4-81DD-22B778F8F50E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I use the VP200 system in my IVP. It automatically X-ties my dual Oddyssey 2= 0 AH batteries during start mode. It then reverts to separating the dual sy= stems after start unless for some reason I have manually programmed in X tie= . I like the fact that I don't have to think about it but I always get maximum= cranking volts available to the starter. John N31VP Sent from my iPad On Aug 13, 2013, at 10:05 AM, Paul Miller wrote: > The shaft that the spring clamps onto is already worn to a degree so time a= nd number of "Weak" starts will dictate how much further that shaft gets wor= n down. the fact that you have slippage is the primary indicator of the pr= oblem and failure is, I believe, predictable. Some day when you're down for= a few weeks just get the shaft and spring fixed and save trouble later on. T= he higher torque starters do much better and the prestolite direct drives ar= e the top choice in my book for that job although people seem to be having g= ood results with the ST-3 and ST-5 (better). A weak battery, maybe small c= ables or long cable runs can affect the starting voltage and the problem can= only escalate, not improve. The shaft will not grow back its diameter. I'= m assuming nobody else out there has ISKRA starter and if they do it should b= e replaced given the history of damage that results. As a separate data poi= nt, I do not need cross-tie with the prestolite starter and I have the same s= etup as you Adam, using Odyssey batteries. I've only had to use the cross t= ie when a battery on the main failed and I could not start.=20 >=20 > Paul > On 2013-08-13, at 10:41 AM, "Adam Molny" wro= te: >=20 >> I have another data point on the starter adapter issue. My Legacy has a d= ual-alternator/dual-battery system with two 20AH batteries. My primary EFIS i= s powered from battery A, and the starter from battery B. During my early fl= ights I would leave the cross-tie off to prevent the EFIS from dropping offl= ine during engine cranking. >> =20 >> The adapter would sometimes slip as you can see here around the 58 second= mark. I was warned that this is a sure sign of impending failure. Shortly a= fter that I installed a new EFIS which has a backup battery. That allowed me= to start the engine with the cross-tie on. As expected, the engine cranks f= aster now, but surprisingly, the adapter also stopped slipping. >> =20 >> My conclusion is that more cranking amps equals more torque on the starte= r adapter, which prevents the spring from slipping. I hope this helps someon= e out there. >> =20 >> BTW, I have a SkyTec light weight starter, p/n C12ST3. >> =20 >> Adam Molny >> Legacy #151, 180 hours --Apple-Mail-9029BF3F-4CFB-44D4-81DD-22B778F8F50E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I use the VP200 system in my IVP. &nbs= p;It automatically X-ties my dual Oddyssey 20 AH batteries during start mode= .  It then reverts to separating the dual systems after start unless fo= r some reason I have manually programmed in X tie.

= I like the fact that I don't have to think about it but I always get maximum= cranking volts available to the  starter.

Joh= n
N31VP

Sent from my iPad



On Aug 13, 2013, at 10:05 AM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com> wrote:

The shaft that the spring clamps onto is already worn t= o a degree so time and number of "Weak" starts will dictate how much further= that shaft gets worn down.   the fact that you have slippage is the pr= imary indicator of the problem and failure is, I believe, predictable.  = ;Some day when you're down for a few weeks just get the shaft and spring fix= ed and save trouble later on. The higher torque starters do much better and t= he prestolite direct drives are the top choice in my book for that job altho= ugh people seem to be having good results with the ST-3 and ST-5 (better). &= nbsp; A weak battery, maybe small cables or long cable runs can affect the s= tarting voltage and the problem can only escalate, not improve.  The sh= aft will not grow back its diameter.  I'm assuming nobody else out ther= e has ISKRA starter and if they do it should be replaced given the history o= f damage that results.  As a separate data point, I do not need cross-t= ie with the prestolite starter and I have the same setup as you Adam, using O= dyssey batteries.  I've only had to use the cross tie when a battery on= the main failed and I could not start. 

Paul
On 2013-08-13, at 10:41 AM, "Adam Molny" <Adam@ValidationPartners.com> wrote:

=

I have another data point on the starte= r adapter issue. My Legacy has a dual-alternator/dual-battery system with two 20AH batteries. My primary EFIS is powered from battery A, and the starter f= rom battery B. During my early flights I would leave the cross-tie off to preven= t the EFIS from dropping offline during engine cranking. =

 

The adapter would sometimes slip as you= can see here around the 58 second mark. I was warned that this is a sure sign of impendin= g failure. Shortly after that I installed a new EFIS which has a backup batter= y. That allowed me to start the engine with the cross-tie on. As expected, the engin= e cranks faster now, but surprisingly, the adapter also stopped slipping.

 

My conclusion is that more cranking amp= s equals more torque on the starter adapter, which prevents the spring from slipping.= I hope this helps someone out there.

 

BTW, I have a SkyTec light weight start= er, p/n C12ST3.

 

<= span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Ada= m Molny

Legacy #151, 180 hours

= --Apple-Mail-9029BF3F-4CFB-44D4-81DD-22B778F8F50E--