X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:05:30 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-pd0-f178.google.com ([209.85.192.178] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6416308 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:59:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.178; envelope-from=pjdmiller@gmail.com Received: by mail-pd0-f178.google.com with SMTP id w10so5188205pde.9 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:58:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.253.69 with SMTP id zy5mr5540849pac.29.1376413115955; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:58:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.143] (S010620aa4b008706.cg.shawcable.net. [174.0.112.194]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s6sm47861658pan.12.2013.08.13.09.58.34 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:58:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Miller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CAC3520D-BFB0-4B84-BE42-A355EF29AE4B" X-Original-Message-Id: <4799C928-95E3-4C96-9D43-814C20211846@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy Starter/Starter Adapter failed X-Original-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:58:32 -0600 References: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) --Apple-Mail=_CAC3520D-BFB0-4B84-BE42-A355EF29AE4B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The shaft that the spring clamps onto is already worn to a degree so = time and number of "Weak" starts will dictate how much further that = shaft gets worn down. the fact that you have slippage is the primary = indicator of the problem and failure is, I believe, predictable. Some = day when you're down for a few weeks just get the shaft and spring fixed = and save trouble later on. The higher torque starters do much better and = the prestolite direct drives are the top choice in my book for that job = although people seem to be having good results with the ST-3 and ST-5 = (better). A weak battery, maybe small cables or long cable runs can = affect the starting voltage and the problem can only escalate, not = improve. The shaft will not grow back its diameter. I'm assuming = nobody else out there has ISKRA starter and if they do it should be = replaced given the history of damage that results. As a separate data = point, I do not need cross-tie with the prestolite starter and I have = the same setup as you Adam, using Odyssey batteries. I've only had to = use the cross tie when a battery on the main failed and I could not = start.=20 Paul On 2013-08-13, at 10:41 AM, "Adam Molny" = wrote: > I have another data point on the starter adapter issue. My Legacy has = a dual-alternator/dual-battery system with two 20AH batteries. My = primary EFIS is powered from battery A, and the starter from battery B. = During my early flights I would leave the cross-tie off to prevent the = EFIS from dropping offline during engine cranking. > =20 > The adapter would sometimes slip as you can see here around the 58 = second mark. I was warned that this is a sure sign of impending failure. = Shortly after that I installed a new EFIS which has a backup battery. = That allowed me to start the engine with the cross-tie on. As expected, = the engine cranks faster now, but surprisingly, the adapter also stopped = slipping. > =20 > My conclusion is that more cranking amps equals more torque on the = starter adapter, which prevents the spring from slipping. I hope this = helps someone out there. > =20 > BTW, I have a SkyTec light weight starter, p/n C12ST3. > =20 > Adam Molny > Legacy #151, 180 hours --Apple-Mail=_CAC3520D-BFB0-4B84-BE42-A355EF29AE4B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii The = shaft that the spring clamps onto is already worn to a degree so time = and number of "Weak" starts will dictate how much further that shaft = gets worn down.   the fact that you have slippage is the primary = indicator of the problem and failure is, I believe, predictable. =  Some day when you're down for a few weeks just get the shaft and = spring fixed and save trouble later on. The higher torque starters do = much better and the prestolite direct drives are the top choice in my = book for that job although people seem to be having good results with = the ST-3 and ST-5 (better).   A weak battery, maybe small cables or = long cable runs can affect the starting voltage and the problem can only = escalate, not improve.  The shaft will not grow back its diameter. =  I'm assuming nobody else out there has ISKRA starter and if they = do it should be replaced given the history of damage that results. =  As a separate data point, I do not need cross-tie with the = prestolite starter and I have the same setup as you Adam, using Odyssey = batteries.  I've only had to use the cross tie when a battery on = the main failed and I could not = start. 

Paul
On 2013-08-13, at = 10:41 AM, "Adam Molny" <Adam@ValidationPartners.com> wrote:

=

I have another data point on the = starter adapter issue. My Legacy has a dual-alternator/dual-battery system with = two 20AH batteries. My primary EFIS is powered from battery A, and the = starter from battery B. During my early flights I would leave the cross-tie off to = prevent the EFIS from dropping offline during engine cranking. =

 

The adapter would sometimes slip as = you can see here around the 58 second mark. I was warned that this is a sure sign of = impending failure. Shortly after that I installed a new EFIS which has a backup = battery. That allowed me to start the engine with the cross-tie on. As expected, the = engine cranks faster now, but surprisingly, the adapter also stopped slipping. =

 

My conclusion is that more cranking = amps equals more torque on the starter adapter, which prevents the spring from = slipping. I hope this helps someone out there.

 

BTW, I have a SkyTec light weight = starter, p/n C12ST3.

 

Adam = Molny

Legacy #151, 180 = hours

= --Apple-Mail=_CAC3520D-BFB0-4B84-BE42-A355EF29AE4B--