X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:37:13 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6415848 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:59:10 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=71.74.56.122; envelope-from=Wolfgang@MiCom.net X-Original-Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=e9yEuNV/ c=1 sm=0 a=MHZY6FYWMEQOp7S43i2QIw==:17 a=3Zlka_XeuxsA:10 a=O_DUg6Ln7EYA:10 a=ttCsPuSJ-FAA:10 a=rTjvlri0AAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=PirjuTcMq4IA:10 a=fLuM78UsAAAA:8 a=v3ZZPjhaAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=w3lcyS9x8FB1_qf6K0YA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=3jk_M6PjnjYA:10 a=Kna09Q1u_EMA:10 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=1wA_Fkwm3vthd5l7hg8A:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=EvEkgYXvTB3X6sXe:21 a=MHZY6FYWMEQOp7S43i2QIw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 74.218.201.50 Received: from [74.218.201.50] ([74.218.201.50:1186] helo=lobo) by hrndva-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 60/BB-18705-A8B3A025; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:58:34 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <4BFCF71A6167444989E292BA477F91A0@lobo> From: "Wolfgang" X-Original-To: References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Flaps on take-off? X-Original-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:58:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008D_01CE980B.A7FAD960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01CE980B.A7FAD960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is always a good idea to reduce your relative speed when close to = hard objects like runways, trees, vehicles, etc. If something goes wrong = the impact energy will be less and more survivable and lets one use = shorter runways. That's what flaps are for, to let you fly slower. Not using them at the = appropriate time increases risk. If using them distracts you from communicating, you need to remember = "fly first, communicate second". If using them "surprises" you with a predictable change in flight = attitude, then you need more training. 20% is a a rough number for reduction of impact energy and runway used = with flaps vs without flaps . . . I'll take it every time. If it takes being "politically incorrect" to get the point across then . = . . Wolfgang ----- Original Message -----=20 From: marv@lancair.net=20 To: lml=20 Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 6:01 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Flaps on take-off? Posted for andres katz : > I fly my IV-P out of Taos NM when density altitude some times is up = to=20 >10,000 feet or more and temperatures during the day > reach close to 95 degrees in the summer,=20 > the airplane with the usual load will utilize the entire runway for = take off=20 >with flaps off making it very dangerous, with flaps one uses less = than 2/3 of=20 >the runway, my plane is a bit heavy but there is no argument in what = the most=20 >effective way for take off is regardless of the personal habits of = the pilot.=20 >That probably applies to all IV-P's=20 >=20 > On Aug 12, 2013, at 01:46 PM, Art Jensen = wrote: >=20 > Maybe Wolfgang was short on political correctness, but the truth = remains=20 >that if you cannot or do not fly the plane as it was meant to be = flown then=20 >you should not be flying that plane.=20 > I believe everyone would agree that flaps do add a margin of safety = and=20 >should be used for take-off and landing as per your POH and I believe = every=20 >instructor giving training in a Lancair would agree. If an instructor = reading=20 >this disagrees, please share why you disagree with me. >=20 > Art >=20 > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >=20 >From: steve ; To: ; Subject: = [LML] Re:=20 >To Marv Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:39:28 PM=20 > I second your post. I am surprised by the comment. > =20 > steve alderman N25SA 360 > =20 > . > -----Original Message----- >From: Claudette Colwell > To: lml > Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:43 am > Subject: [LML] To Marv >=20 > It is very regretful the comment from Wolfgang apparently directed = to Matt=20 >appeared on the LML. This has always been a constructive exchange of = >information and ideas. That type of personal comment is not in = keeping with=20 >the spirit of cooperative sharing of information. > =20 > Claudette > =20 > =20 ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01CE980B.A7FAD960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It is always a good idea to reduce your = relative=20 speed when close to hard objects like runways, trees, vehicles, etc. If=20 something goes wrong the impact energy will be less and more survivable = and lets=20 one use shorter runways.
 
That's what flaps are for, to let you = fly slower.=20 Not using them at the appropriate time increases risk.
 
If using them distracts you from = communicating, you=20 need to remember "fly first, communicate second".
If using them "surprises" you with = a=20 predictable change in flight attitude, then you need more = training.
 
20% is a a rough number for reduction = of impact=20 energy and runway used with flaps vs without flaps . . . I'll = take it=20 every time.
 
If it takes being "politically = incorrect" to get=20 the point across then . . .
 
Wolfgang
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 marv@lancair.net=20
To: lml
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 = 6:01=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Flaps on=20 take-off?




Posted for andres katz = <yak55m@icloud.com>:

> = I fly=20 my IV-P out of Taos NM when density altitude some times is up to=20
>10,000 feet or more and temperatures during the day
> = reach=20 close to 95 degrees in the summer, 
> the airplane with the = usual=20 load will utilize the entire runway for take off
>with flaps = off making=20 it very dangerous, with flaps one uses less than 2/3 of
>the = runway, my=20 plane is a bit heavy but there is no argument in what the most=20
>effective way for take off is regardless of the personal = habits of the=20 pilot.
>That probably applies to all IV-P's 
> =
> On=20 Aug 12, 2013, at 01:46 PM, Art Jensen <flycassutts@yahoo.com>=20 wrote:
>
> Maybe Wolfgang was short on political = correctness, but=20 the truth remains
>that if you cannot or do not fly the plane = as it was=20 meant to be flown then
>you should not be flying that plane. =
> I=20 believe everyone would agree that flaps do add a margin of safety and=20
>should be used for take-off and landing as per your POH and I = believe=20 every
>instructor giving training in a Lancair would agree. If = an=20 instructor reading
>this disagrees, please share why you = disagree with=20 me.
>
> Art
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for=20 iPad
>
>From: steve <n5276j@aol.com>; To:=20 <lml@lancaironline.net>; Subject: [LML] Re:
>To Marv = Sent: Mon,=20 Aug 12, 2013 5:39:28 PM
> I second your post. I am surprised by = the=20 comment.
>  
> steve alderman   N25SA  = 360
>  
> .
> -----Original = Message-----
>From:=20 Claudette Colwell <colwell.ch@gmail.com>
> To: lml=20 <lml@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:43 = am
>=20 Subject: [LML] To Marv
>
> It is very regretful the = comment from=20 Wolfgang apparently directed to Matt
>appeared on the = LML.  This=20 has always been a constructive exchange of
>information and=20 ideas.  That type of personal comment is not in keeping with =
>the=20 spirit of cooperative sharing of information.
>  
>=20 Claudette
>  
> =  

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