That seems a scenario where you would be in better shape with the flaps up. You very well might make the runway. With flaps down, you likely would not and it would be very dangerous to try and retract them. With the high wing loading that all the Lancairs have, they are flying bricks with no power. I think almost nobody makes the approach to land with no power.

Remember way back in primary training when the instructor had you remove power abeam the numbers and make the landing without having to add power? Does anyone practice that maneuver with their Lancair?

Bill B

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Hannahan
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 6:33 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Flaps on take-off?

Matt, I agree with the others that w's insults are inexcusable, but I must ask a question.

What do you do if your low over the departure end of the runway and the engine quits?

1. Land at high speed flaps up.

2. Lower the flaps and deal with the big trim and pitch change while making all the other decisions and actions required in parallel.

3. ?

Regards,

Bill Hannahan

wfhannahan@yahoo.com

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "marv@lancair.net" <marv@lancair.net>
To: lml <lml>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 4:02 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Flaps on take-off?

Posted for Matt losangeles <mattinlosangeles@yahoo.com>:

> I feel much safer adding 5 knots or so on the ground before I lift off so I
>don't have to mess with trim when I am low to the ground. I could see a
>scenario where I take off IFR and I am immediately handed off to departure
>control while I am putting the flaps up. They tell me to do something the
>requires me to look at my map and the next thing you know, while distracted,
> I am at an unusual attitude really close to the ground. When I am down low
>like that I want to make sure if I am distracted it isn't a problem, the
>plane just keeps on climbing along at Vy or so.
>
> I also would guess if you use flaps on take off, this adds drag and slows
>your rate of climb (I have not tested this). I am able to be at Vy a couple
>seconds after take off and I am going to get to a safer altitude before the
>guy using flaps (again, this is my guess since I have not tested the two
>scenarios).
>
> Another thing. It is an experimental aircraft. As it states on the
>EAA, "There is  no FAA approved flight manual or POH for experimental
>aircraft, nor is there a  TC".
>
> Ohh, what about those reno racer Legacy aircraft that have just bonded thier
>flaps in place so they can't go down in order to eliminate the drag of the
>hindges. I guess they are not flying those aircraft the way they were meant
>to be flown. You could argue they are reno racers I suppose. It is also
>likely they are using those planes the other 51 weeks out of the year to fly
>all over the place and those planes don't seem to be crashing on takeoff.
>
> "I believe everyone would agree that flaps do add a margin of safety"
> I personally consider myself part of everyone and I don't agree that flaps
>do in fact add a margin of safety on take off. I use them on landing so I can
>see out the window and out of habit I suppose. If the speed you land at makes
>such a difference, then the best thing to be doing is flying a plane that
>lands at a slower speed.
>
> Perhaps if we were all 100 hour pilots, blindly following the POH makes
>sense. It is funny, I remember having this EXACT same argument on a Mooney
>board. I used to take off without flaps when I had a Mooney and I heard the
>same thing there. Follow the POH explicitly or you are completely reckless
>and should have your license taken away. At least those Mooney guys had a
>point. That was a certified aircraft with a POH that said to take off with
>flaps.
>
> Something else to consider, if flaps are so critical to flight on our
>planes, why on earth don't they have a back up system to ensure they always
>go down when needed like our landing gear has? My guess is because the plane
>will fly just fine without them.
>
> Matt
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Art Jensen <flycassutts@yahoo.com>
> To: lml@lancaironline.net
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:46 PM
> Subject: [LML] Re: To Marv
>
> Maybe Wolfgang was short on political correctness, but the truth remains
>that if you cannot or do not fly the plane as it was meant to be flown then
>you should not be flying that plane.
>
> I believe everyone would agree that flaps do add a margin of safety and
>should be used for take-off and landing as per your POH and I believe every
>instructor giving training in a Lancair would agree.  If an instructor
>reading this disagrees, please share why you disagree with me.
>
> Art
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>
> ________________________________
> From:  steve <n5276j@aol.com>;  To:  <lml@lancaironline.net>;  Subject:
> [LML] Re: To Marv  Sent:  Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:39:28 PM
> I second your post. I am surprised by the comment.
>
> steve alderman   N25SA 360
>
> .
> -----Original Message----- From: Claudette Colwell <colwell.ch@gmail.com>
>To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:43 am Subject:
>[LML] To Marv
> It is very regretful the comment from Wolfgang apparently directed to Matt
>appeared on the LML. This has always been a constructive exchange of
>information and ideas. That type of personal comment is not in keeping with
>the spirit of cooperative sharing of information.
>
> Claudette

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