=0A-------- Original Message -----= ---
=0ASubject: [LML] Re: Flaps on take-off?
=0AFrom: "Bill Bradburry= " <bbradburry@bellsouth.net<= /a>>
=0ADate: Tue, August 13, 2013 9:25 am
=0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net
=0A
=0A

That seems a scenario where you would be in better shape with = the flaps up. You very well might make the runway. With flaps d= own, you likely would not and it would be very dangerous to try and retract= them. With the high wing loading that all the Lancairs have, they ar= e flying bricks with no power. I think almost nobody makes the approa= ch to land with no power.

Remem= ber way back in primary training when the instructor had you remove power a= beam the numbers and make the landing without having to add power? Do= es anyone practice that maneuver with their Lancair?

Bill = B

From:= Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Hannahan
<= span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 6= :33 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Flaps on take-off?

Matt, I agree with the others that w's insults are inexcusable, but = I must ask a question.

What do you do if your = low over the departure end of the runway and the engine quits?

<= /div>

1. Land at high speed flaps up.

2. Lower the flaps and deal with the big trim and pitch= change while making all the other decisions and actions required in parall= el.

3. ?=

Regards,

Bill Hannahan

= wfhannahan@yahoo.= com

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "marv@lancair.net" <marv@lancair.net>
To: lm= l <lml>
Sent: Mon= day, August 12, 2013 4:02 PM
Subjec= t: [LML] Re: Flaps on take-off?

=

Posted for Matt losange= les <mattinlosangeles@yaho= o.com>:

> I feel much safer adding 5 knots or so on the = ground before I lift off so I
>don't have to mess with trim when I = am low to the ground. I could see a
>scenario where I take off IFR = and I am immediately handed off to departure
>control while I am pu= tting the flaps up. They tell me to do something the
>requires me t= o look at my map and the next thing you know, while distracted,
>&n= bsp;I am at an unusual attitude really close to the ground. When I am down = low
>like that I want to make sure if I am distracted it isn't a pr= oblem, the
>plane just keeps on climbing along at Vy or so.
>= ;
> I also would guess if you use flaps on take off, this add= s drag and slows
>your rate of climb (I have not tested this).= I am able to be at Vy a couple
>seconds after take off and I = am going to get to a safer altitude before the
>guy using flaps (ag= ain, this is my guess since I have not tested the two
>scenarios).<= br> >
> Another thing. It is an experimental aircraft. As = it states on the
>EAA, "There is  no FAA approved fl= ight manual or POH for experimental
>aircraft, nor is there a = TC".
>
> Ohh, what about those reno racer Legacy= aircraft that have just bonded thier
>flaps in place so they can't= go down in order to eliminate the drag of the
>hindges. I guess th= ey are not flying those aircraft the way they were meant
>to be flo= wn. You could argue they are r= eno racers I suppose. It is also
>likely the= y are using those planes the other 51 weeks out of the year to fly
>= ;all over the place and those planes don't seem to be crashing on takeoff.<= br> >
> "I believe everyone would agree that flaps do add = a margin of safety"
> I personally consider myself part of eve= ryone and I don't agree that flaps
>do in fact add a margin of safe= ty on take off. I use them on landing so I can
>see out the window = and out of habit I suppose. If the speed you land at makes
>su= ch a difference, then the best thing to be doing is flying a plane that >lands at a slower speed.
>
> Perhaps if we were = all 100 hour pilots, blindly following the POH makes
>sense. It is = funny, I remember having this EXACT same argument on a Mooney
>boar= d. I used to take off without flaps when I had a Mooney and I heard the >same thing there. Follow the POH explicitly or you are completel= y reckless
>and should have your license taken away. At least those= Mooney guys had a
>point. That was a certified aircraft with a POH= that said to take off with
>flaps.
>
> Someth= ing else to consider, if flaps are so critical to flight on our
>pl= anes, why on earth don't they have a back up system to ensure they always <= br> >go down when needed like our landing gear has? My guess is because = the plane
>will fly just fine without them.
>
>= ; Matt
>
>
> ________________________________
&g= t; From: Art Jensen <flycassutt= s@yahoo.com>
> To: l= ml@lancaironline.net
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:46 PM > Subject: [LML] Re: To Marv
>
> Maybe Wolfg= ang was short on political correctness, but the truth remains
>that= if you cannot or do not fly the plane as it was meant to be flown then >you should not be flying that plane.
>
> I believe ev= eryone would agree that flaps do add a margin of safety and
>should= be used for take-off and landing as per your POH and I believe every
= >instructor giving training in a Lancair would agree.  If an i= nstructor
>reading this disagrees, please share why you disagree wi= th me.
>
> Art
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for = iPad
>
>
> _____________________________= ___
> From:  steve <n= 5276j@aol.com>;  To:  <lml@lancaironline.net>;  Subject:
= > [LML] Re: To Marv  Sent:  Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:39:2= 8 PM
> I second your post. I am surprised by= the comment.
>
> steve alderman   N25SA 36= 0
>
> .
> -----Original Message----- From: Claudett= e Colwell <colwell.ch@gmail.com<= /a>>
>To: lml <lml@l= ancaironline.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:43 am Subject:
>= [LML] To Marv
> It is very regretful the comment from Wo= lfgang apparently directed to Matt
>appeared on the LML. This= has always been a constructive exchange of
>information and ideas.= That type of personal comment is not in keeping with
>the sp= irit of cooperative sharing of information.
>
> Clau= dette

Fo=
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